Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-29-2014, 04:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: France
Posts: 50

Planetaire - '07 Toyota Prius 2 plug in
90 day: 188.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 45
Thanked 70 Times in 26 Posts
Thumbs up 208 km (129 mi.) in EV mode with a 2007 prius plugin 20kWh



Hello all from France.

Few days ago I drove 208km without any gas and without charging my battery during this trip.

I have a 2007 prius with several electrical "mods":
-add 140 A123 20Ah cells
-add 936 LG 2.8Ah cells
-add bms+ (from hybrinterfaces.ca)
-and dongle (canusb from lawicel) and a pc.

Total is about 20kWh. Diy made.



The A123 are // connected with the stock nimh using a contactor and a fuse.
They have a bms.
Le LG are connected on the A123 via a dc-dc converter in order to control their current. They are energy cells, not power one, unlike the A123.
All these cells are grid charged using a 2kW elcon charger.

Bms+ is needed in order to be able to use more then the stock 6.5Ah.

For this trip, I use only 80 Wh/km, then 16,7kWh come out of the battery.
Max speed was 85 km/h, average between 45 and 50 km/h.

Actually the system is not finished. I put the LG on the nimh cells.
For small trips they are removed.


And also several aerodynamic mods:
-Underbody panels
-Wheel covered
-Front Grill blocked
-Rear wheel squirts
-Rear wiper delete
Mods made after having read ecomodder forum. Thank's all.

And also
-4xToyo nano2 tires
-Replace 12v lead acid with 4xA123 Lifepo4 20Ah+bms
-Ptc heater in order to defog the windscreen in winter when in electric mode.

I am not allowed to post pictures, less then 5 messages. Please look in my album. In 2011 4.5kWh, 2012 9kWh and 2014 20kWh.



Last edited by planetaire; 09-29-2014 at 04:14 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to planetaire For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-09-2015), Bataleon (12-31-2014), Cd (11-29-2014), Cobb (09-29-2014), Daox (09-29-2014), ijaccro (10-27-2015), Insight for life (09-29-2014), MetroMPG (09-29-2014), mort (09-30-2014), NeilBlanchard (09-30-2014), OG VX (10-01-2014), RedDevil (09-29-2014), redpoint5 (09-30-2014), Xist (09-30-2014)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-29-2014, 10:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 19,321

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.58 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Geo Metro EV
Last 3: 95.68 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 38.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,980
Thanked 4,688 Times in 2,347 Posts
Bienvenue, planetaire!

Quote:
I am not allowed to post pictures, less then 5 messages. Please look in my album.
I have changed your account so you can now post photos and links. (I will embed a couple from your album in your first post.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by planetaire View Post
Few days ago I drove 208km without any gas and without charging my battery during this trip.
Congratulations! Sounds like a fun project.

Quote:
Max speed was 85 km/h, average between 45 and 50 km/h.
Have you done anything special to prevent the engine from starting? Or did you just drive with a careful right foot?

Quote:
Mods made after having read ecomodder forum. Thank's all.
Glad you found us!
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
planetaire (09-29-2014)
Old 09-29-2014, 12:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: France
Posts: 50

Planetaire - '07 Toyota Prius 2 plug in
90 day: 188.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 45
Thanked 70 Times in 26 Posts
Out of gas

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Bienvenue, planetaire!...

...Have you done anything special to prevent the engine from starting? Or did you just drive with a careful right foot?

Glad you found us!
Merci, MetroMPG.

Yes, I use a mode called "out of gas".
At the begining of each trip I open, using a relay, a wire, during a second or less.
So the prius think there is no engine ! say no gazoline.
This special mode was designed by toyota !
For exemple in case your gas tank is empty. When this append all prius 2 drive in electric mode to ... may be the next gas station... or not.
But with the stock battery you will not drive a long distance, except if the road goes down. If the battery is at the normal soc (State of charge=63%) 2km on a flat road only. 4km if the battery was fully charged (80% soc).

So they decide that the speed limit in this mode will be 85 km/h.
In this mode power max is near 22kW with a 25kW boost and peek over 32 kW.
To leave this mode you have to stop the car and power off/on.

I use this mode very often because no gas is used and you can use your right foot as you like. You can also use the B mode, a mode with more regen then the D mode. You have all the system on (brake, power steering, clim... except heating)

When the trip will be long, I use the normal hybrid mode. It is a mixed mode in wich you use the engine time to time and the electric motor. One alone or both at the same time. The best is to use the engine if high power is needed and electric under.

The actual 20kWh picture is:


So, after having used my Prius in eco mode using sometime hypermileur techniques, giving 3.7L/100km, I decide first to add 4.5kWh
This is the picture you inserted in my first post.
The gas consumption was reduced to 2.2 L/100km
The year later I added 4.5kWh more then have 9kWh.
Then the gas consumption was reduced to 1.2 L/100km.

9 kWh with box wires, contactor etc is about 80kg.
100km was possible in electric mode.

This year I added the LG cells, less then 45kg and 9.8kWh.
Now I only "fill" with 10L the gas tank, and only when needed.

I also replaced the old lead acid 12v that was 7years old with 4xA123 20Ah and a capacitive bms. 8kg less then before and no problem at all because the prius voltage never goes over 14.1 volts.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to planetaire For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-09-2015), MetroMPG (09-29-2014), NeilBlanchard (09-30-2014), redpoint5 (09-30-2014), sendler (09-29-2014), Xist (09-30-2014)
Old 09-29-2014, 02:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 19,321

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
90 day: 67.58 mpg (US)

ForkenSwift - '92 Geo Metro EV
Last 3: 95.68 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 38.25 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,980
Thanked 4,688 Times in 2,347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetaire View Post
Yes, I use a mode called "out of gas".
At the begining of each trip I open, using a relay, a wire, during a second or less.
So the prius think there is no engine !
Aha. I had heard of this before - I didn't know you could "spoof" it.

Quote:
I use this mode very often because no gas is used and you can use your right foot as you like. You can also use the B mode, a mode with more regen then the D mode.
I assume you are limited in regen to putting current only into the original Toyota NiMH pack? Or can you regen into your boost pack also?

I'm envious of your project - felicitations! Since I scrapped my "around town" converted EV this year, I miss it. A project like this would suit me nicely.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2014, 03:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: France
Posts: 50

Planetaire - '07 Toyota Prius 2 plug in
90 day: 188.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 45
Thanked 70 Times in 26 Posts
Regen.

Regen is really better than with only the nimh cells because two reasons:

-The total electrical resistance is then only 0.04 ohms because during driving the nimh are // with the A123 (Lifepo4). Usually nimh alone have 0.3 ohms (In summer).
-And you can charge all the cells. If the A123 are not fully charged you can charge several kWh during a slope. With the nimh only 0.4kWh for exemple.

So the nimh don't heat like previously and the A123 stay at a good temperature.
They don't need to be cooled (I don't live in a hot place)

In out of gas mode there is a third interesting reason,
because you can use the B mode at any speed without loosing power in the engine. I often use this so my mechanical brakes are often just for a final stop, less then 20 km/h. In B mode you can have twice the electrical braking power then in D mode. You can mix from D to B mode during braking. Maximum electrical braking (regen) is near 28kW.

(Converting a car from gas to electric is quite impossible here in France, because laws)
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to planetaire For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-09-2015), Cd (11-29-2014), MetroMPG (09-30-2014), redpoint5 (09-30-2014)
Old 09-29-2014, 03:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 10,094

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 39.62 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 38.47 mpg (US)

Daox's 04 Civic - '04 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 41.58 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,614
Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,180 Posts
Where did you get your A123 cells from?
__________________
Current project: Heating the manual trans with engine coolant
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2014, 03:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: France
Posts: 50

Planetaire - '07 Toyota Prius 2 plug in
90 day: 188.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 45
Thanked 70 Times in 26 Posts
I get the first 70 in France and the 70 others a year later in china (Pm me for the seller name please).
Today the china seller have only cells without tabs. They are good one but it is a very big job to connect them. Really prefer cells with tabs, half of full tabs; less job, more easy to remove, same metal...probably longer life
My A123 cells don't have tabs. Avoid cells with tabs soldered.
I have connected the cells using screws and plates.
This job must be very well done. You can have burst up to 200A, but average near 40A in my case. The cells have only 7.2mm thickness, so you don't have much space for electrical insulation.

The 18650 LG are connected using spot welding. This is easy to do. You have just to be more carefull on the plus pole.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to planetaire For This Useful Post:
aerohead (05-09-2015), redpoint5 (09-30-2014)
Old 09-29-2014, 06:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
Adrift in the slow lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 2,039

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 58.65 mpg (US)

It - '09 Hyundai I10 Active Cool
Team Hyundai
90 day: 31.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 705
Thanked 792 Times in 513 Posts
Wow! Hats off for what you've accomplished.

Did you spot weld 936 LG 18650 cells together? Eeew... what a lot of work!
Those are lithium oxide? How do you protect them?

I'm looking for a small PHEV parallel pack on my Insight, just to boost FE not go full electric (the EV motor on the Insight is too small for that anyway).
I'm thinking LiFePO4 and about 1-1.5 kWh, portable, charging at home and at work.
Any advice?
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, UG, partial LGB, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop).
lifetime FE over 0.1 GigaMeter or 61 KiloMile

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
Cobb (09-29-2014)
Old 09-29-2014, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 10,094

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 39.62 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 38.47 mpg (US)

Daox's 04 Civic - '04 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 41.58 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,614
Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,180 Posts
Very impressive and clean assembly btw!
__________________
Current project: Heating the manual trans with engine coolant
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2014, 07:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Posts: 1,749

Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 107.84 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 35.26 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 103.38 mpg (US)

2015 Yamaha R3 - '15 Yamaha R3
90 day: 79.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 233
Thanked 402 Times in 302 Posts
OSN Power on Ali baba has full tab A123 Amp20 cells once again for $36 plus shipping. There is a thread on Endless sphere. Endless-sphere.com • View topic - PROMOTING OSN A123 20ah packs

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sendler For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (09-30-2014)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com