Ben Nelson's Electro-Metro Build thread

[bennelson]

OK- It's official.

I am starting a build thread for my next electric vehicle and I am doing it here.

The premise is this.
I am going to build an electric vehicle based on converting a street-legal four-wheeled automobile to run on a DC electric motor and battery pack. I need to do this as an ecological/economic project

The plan is to buy parts as I can, with cash, and only when I can find good deals. Recycled/Reused is highly encouraged.

The motor will come from a forklift and be over-volted as much as I can for a resonable, but not high top speed. The vehicle will be used for local travel, errands, and short commutes.

When finished, it will be something that neither I, nor my wife would be (terribly) embarassed to drive.

I will start off using free/existing controller, batteries, and other parts. When I know what I am doing, I will upgrade to either a purchased, or specially home-made controller. I plan to really look around to see what is possible for batteries. I will check with power utitites, firealarm companies, etc, to see if I can get used/surplus batts.

Planned vehicle will be a two seater. Most the time it will be driven by only me, but occasionally will have a passenger. I never plan on using it for four people.

I am thinking that either a compact car because of its light weight and small cost, or a light pickup truck for ease of work and repair, and battery-carrying strength.

I am only in the really early stages on this. I am currently working on buy the forklift which will supply the motor and other parts.

Next will be to decide what vehicle will work best, and then start looking around to find the deal on it.

Right now, please feel free to suggest what you think would be the best donor vehicle. Let me know why you think it would be best.

Thanks in advance,

-Ben

[bennelson]

Wow, I just put this up and I have something to add already.

I got a response from Jim at High Torque Electric.

He said that this forklift has a good motor, but the brushes and commutator are relatively undersized, thus it would be best for only a smaller vehicle.

Looks like if I use this motor, the vehicle will have to be more like a Geo Metro than an S10 or Ford Ranger.

All I really want is a roof and more wheels on the pavement than the electric motorcycle gives me.

I may end up going with a different motor than the one from this forklift. I am still planning on buying the forklift because it's such a deal and includes a BIG charger with it.

[bennelson]

I just starting poking through Craigslist for good cars with bad engines.

I found a 9 Neon for sale:
Craigslist link

Looks pretty good, only one little bit of rust on back. Price is right and it doesn't have a million miles on it. I don't know if it is stick or automatic.

What would you think of a vehicle like this one for an electric conversion?

I am guessing that it has two more doors than I need. An Neon owners out there that can comment?

[SVOboy]

Nice poking so far! I've finally understood your forum nickname, . I didn't get it before.

Anyway, what kind of stuff are you looking for in the car in terms of handling and sex appeal?

[MetroMPG]

Cool! Another EV build thread. I'm going to enjoy this immensely!

Since you're limited to a smallish car by the motor size, and you only need two seats, my first choice in superlight cars would be a CRX or Metro convertible. In normal light cars, a Toyota MR2 would be fun, or maybe a Miata. For cool, old & still relatively light: how about a Karmann Ghia or old Bug. Rabbit convertible?

I enviously eyed a dead Miata in a local junkyard shortly after we started working on the Metro...

However since you're operating on a strict budget, you may have to just choose
whatever comes up. But - get a car with a manual transmission (or one that you can replace with a manual from a junk yard).

I stopped over @ diyelectric car and read the good advice that Jim Husted provided. Man, that guy deserves a medal for all the help he gives people like us!

On the question of the charger, being an industrial machine, do you know if it needs a 120v or 240v hookup?

[MetroMPG]

What kind of performance are you going to be looking for? What are your minimum acceptable range & speed goals?

My suggestion: think about doing a 72 volt conversion. That will permit you to use a series/parallel setup with the 36v forklift controller for smooth, lower speeds @ 36v (2 strings of 36v in parallel mode), and switch to 72v (2 strings in series) for speed.

It'll also let you use your 36v charger - you can charge both strings in the pack in parallel mode.

Very exciting.

[bennelson]

I don't know if the charger needs 120 or 240. It was buried behind a bunch of other things - I could only get the view I did when I snapped a photo.

Friend of mine said it looked like a decent one.

Over at my parents house, there is a 240V jack in the garage for a welder. My gargage has a 100 amp fuse box it it. My garage is also in crumbly condition. I am hoping to rebuild it this summer. If I do, I plan on getting an electrician in there to wire up for anything I could ever want.

I talked to a guy a while back who had a forklift motor for sale. He also has several Miatas and about 8 Cub Cadets in his garage.
Maybe I could talk to him. A little electric convertable would be sooooo cool.

[MetroMPG]

Woo, Miata!

BTW - 72v worth of floodies is probably at the edge of GVWR limits for most small cars, and about the limit you can get away with before absolutely needing a suspension upgrade (stiffer springs), at least in a Metro.

[bennelson]

You are right on with 72 volts.

I figure, use what ya got.

This charger has a lot of amps, but only 36 volts.

I have been told that a forklift motor can easily have its voltage doubled or tripled.

Controller costs seem to jump up above 48 and above 72 volts.

72 volts seems like a reasonable way to go.

I would like to do 45 or 50 mph. I would like a 50 mile range, as one place I often work is exactly 25 miles each way. I know that is asking a bit much on a budget converson.

I do not need to take this car on the highway, but do need to go fast enough for some large country roads.

[bennelson]

I just looked up some info on the Miata.

I hadn't thought about it, but the Miata is rear-wheel drive/longitudinal engine - the same as how many pickup trucks are.

I thought one thing that would be nice about a pickup conversion is how the motor would attach to the transmission would be a little simpler.

A Miata sure would weigh a lot less than a pickup and be cooler to boot.

A 72 volt battery pack by using Trojan T-145 flooded lead acid batteries would weigh 864 lbs.

Here is a Miata conversion using Optima 12 volts to sacrifice range for speed. I think I would want to flip that and get more range/less speed. Not that I want no speed, but it would be an acceptable trade-off for better range and low cost

[Daox]

Very cool Ben!

A Miata would be a very cool project car. I just dug up some info on wikipedia here. It looks like the older you get, the lighter they are.


1989–1997
curb weight - 2070 lbs.
Cd - 0.38


1998–2005
curb weight - 2200 lbs.
Cd - 0.36

2006-Present (for kicks)
curb weight - 2414 lbs.
Cd - ?


The Neon would also be a good conversion. The body does look like its in very descent shape, and it sounds like it'll run enough to not have to tow it home.

1995 Neon
curb weight - 2380 lbs
Cd - 0.33



I browsed through craigslist quickly too searching for 'bad engine' and 'blown engine'. There isn't a ton to choose from.

91 Civic - $700
http://madison.craigslist.org/car/531870401.html

95 Metro - $350
http://madison.craigslist.org/car/523728067.html

94 Tercel - $300
http://madison.craigslist.org/pts/513921781.html

89 Escort - $300
http://appleton.craigslist.org/car/544607393.html

94 Prelude - $800
http://appleton.craigslist.org/car/519658292.html

300ZX - $350
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/pts/553594879.html

[bennelson]

Thanks for the links.

Looks like the lighter the vehicle, the better. I am going to try to keep it around a ton or less. I think that Neon would be about as big as I would want to go.

I have noticed that with most lines of vehicles, they get heavier and more expensive and the model years go by. Supossedly, consumers demand more and more luxuries, A/C, bigger engine, etc.

I have heard that EV converters should try to get earlier models of cars over later ones.

I think the weight of the Miata is a good example of this.


Ideally, I am looking for the cheaper the better.

However, I did learn with the electric motorcycle conversion that a lot of little things wrong will take a lot of time and money to fix.

I think this time, I am going to spend more time looking around to find something that ONLY has a bad engine, and not much else wrong with it.

I am currently saving up a big pile of cash to wave under the nose of the seller for when the right vehicle comes along.

[Daox]

If your looking for lightweight I think the CRX or Metro are going to be the best bet. They both comes in well under 2000 lbs I believe. I'm sure others here know much more about them. I'm more of a Toyota nut.

[Christopher Jordan]

Originally Posted by Daox

I browsed through craigslist quickly

You missed some doozeys! Dontcha really want a Ford Aspire? I know, I know... rolling easter egg - bumper cars- just need a back pole......

I must be a rarity to like these re-badged Kias; but Craigslist usually has these pretty low. Sure enough $399, and a couple $800 "in mint condition!" (yeah, right...) here is a link to one-

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/555955087.html

countersTrike

[bennelson]

Hmmmm - a Ford Aspire?......

Today I got a call from the office person at the Medical College (the place selling the forklift)

She was trying to figure out how to properly selling the forklift without them having to collect sales tax and also covering their a$$ for liability.

It looks like I am going to get a receipt for $500 for "Misc Lab Services" and a second page with a memo saying that it is for "forklift salvage - NOT to be used as a forklift"

Works for me.
On a "homebuilt" vehicle, you do need to show where you got the parts from for the engine, transmission, and frame. Since mine will just be a conversion, I don't have to worry about that.

I am still currently arranging for getting a big truck and trailer over there to pick this thing up.

Will update again once I get that figured out.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan

You missed some doozeys! Dontcha really want a Ford Aspire? I know, I know... rolling easter egg - bumper cars- just need a back pole......

I must be a rarity to like these re-badged Kias; but Craigslist usually has these pretty low. Sure enough $399, and a couple $800 "in mint condition!" (yeah, right...) here is a link to one-

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/555955087.html

countersTrike

Yeah, the Aspire is a nice little car. However, I was searching for cars in the immediate area, not 2000+ miles away.

[Ryland]

there are a number of good books out there on electric cars, Convert It is one of them, New Electric Vehicles is another one of them, of course they are both older, but the basics are simaler.

[bennelson]

I got an e-mail from the guy with all the Miatas.

He is asking $1200 for the Miata. I don't know what year it is yet. I am planning on going to look at it next week.

$1200 sounds like way more than I was budgeting for the car shell, but a Miata would be WAY cooler than a Metro (nothing personal to you Metro-heads!)

I might be able to do some forklift parts trade to get the cost of the Miata down, if I go that route

[SVOboy]

Do it! You can prolly part it out a bit, na?

[diesel_john]

on the charger, i would want 240v not 3-phase or 120v.


what's your battery weight?


Do you use any gears or do you couple direct to a front drive shaft?