Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-16-2010, 12:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,018

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 183 Times in 98 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
Experiment: The cost of Headlights

I know it's been said to keep the headlights off for MPG, and I'm sure it does make a difference. But I had never seen the difference quantified. I had a few extra minutes today so I did a test with my car, using the scangauge to get numbers.

Temperature was in the mid 70's (I'm in florida, clear day) at 2:15 PM on 11-15-10. (in case anyone wants to look up the weather) I did 2 runs in each direction on a long flat stretch. Roughly 1.1 mile apart from each marker. Cruise set at 55 mph and given plenty of time to stabilize the speed before markers and then resumed for each run. You know, standard testing here.

Test 1: No headlights.

A: 35.0
B: 36.2
A: 35.7
B: 35.1
Average: 35.5, Testing Range is 1.2


Test 2: Headlights on. Low Beams only
A: 34.8
B: 34.7
A: 34.4
B: 34.6
Average: 34.6, Testing Range 0.4

Test 3: Headlights Back off
A: 36.4
B: 35.5
A: 35.2
B: 35.1
Average: 35.6, Testing Range 1.3

So without Headlights, I'm seeing 35.55 MPG Average.
With the headlights I'm seeing 34.6 MPG Average.

So 0.95 MPG, or around 2.5%. I'm sure with the high beams on the difference would be larger.



Another quantified reason why winter mileage seems like an uphill battle.


Last edited by brucey; 11-17-2010 at 12:35 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to brucey For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (05-22-2011), cfg83 (11-16-2010), ConnClark (11-16-2010), endurance (11-29-2010), JacobAziza (12-01-2010), Jyden (01-14-2014), NeilBlanchard (11-16-2010), oldtamiyaphile (01-31-2015), Piwoslaw (11-16-2010), redpoint5 (01-14-2014), RobbMeeX (01-13-2014), SwamiSalami (05-22-2011), turin (12-01-2010), UltArc (01-13-2014), Weather Spotter (11-16-2010), Zerohour (11-29-2010)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 11-16-2010, 01:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 652 Times in 516 Posts
Thanks for taking the time and effort to test this, but the variation in the results is at least equal or even bigger than the observed difference between the 2 conditions.

These small improvements simply can not be tested and quantified on the open road with a few drives up and down.
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 01:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
what is the theory behind reducing electrical load to increase mileage? it's not like your alternator is on a clutch and only kicks in when there is more electrical load than your battery can supply. it runs at the same speed all the time (or at least the same speed in proportion to engine rpm).
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 01:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,587 Times in 1,554 Posts
Increasing the amount of electric power you use increase the load that the alternator puts on the engine.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 01:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
The battery only supplies power when the engine isn't running. While the engine is running, the battery is actually a load, and it is the alternator that powers everything. If you increase the electrical load, then the alternator has to work harder, and so it saps more torque from the engine.

The alternator doesn't put out "extra" power either -- if only all the hydrogen generator proponents knew this...
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 05:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
basjoos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,088

Aerocivic - '92 Honda Civic CX
Last 3: 70.54 mpg (US)

AerocivicLB - '92 Honda Civic CX
Team Honda
90 day: 55.14 mpg (US)

Camryglide - '20 Toyota Camry hybrid LE
90 day: 65.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 677 Times in 302 Posts
The higher your mileage, the greater the mpg hit from the headlights or any other electrical load. On the aerocivic, using the headlights knocks my mileage down about 2-3 mpg, but the mileage hit is almost unnoticable against the background noise on my F150.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 06:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Hypermiler
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,321

PaleCivic (retired) - '96 Honda Civic DX Sedan
90 day: 69.2 mpg (US)

PaleFit - '09 Honda Fit Sport
Team Honda
Wagons
90 day: 44.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 611
Thanked 433 Times in 283 Posts
From the theoretical side, with some VERY quick-and-dirty math:

My car uses
110w = 2x 55w headlight
75w = 3x 25w taillight, including high-mounted
185w extra load

Alternator: 60% efficient (Alternator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Lights on = 308w extra load on the engine
308w/ 745 watts in hp = 0.41 hp extra load

Using the calculator, my car needs ~10hp to roll at 55 mph.

0.41 hp is a 4.1% loss of efficiency at that speed.
11% loss at 35 mph
2% loss at 70 mph
__________________



11-mile commute: 100 mpg - - - Tank: 90.2 mpg / 1191 miles
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to PaleMelanesian For This Useful Post:
JacobAziza (12-01-2010), Lokalazeros (11-16-2010), NeilBlanchard (11-16-2010), UltArc (01-13-2014)
Old 11-16-2010, 07:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 287 Times in 200 Posts
Surprisingly, high beams are typically 60W, versus 55W for low beams. It's not so much that there's more light, it's mostly that it's cast further down the road. Also into oncoming drivers' eyes.

Good work, Brucey (and Pale).

Btw, what speed did you set the cruise to?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 08:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
Wiki Mod
 
Weather Spotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midland MI, USA
Posts: 2,042

Max - '14 Ford C-Max SEL
Thanks: 228
Thanked 304 Times in 210 Posts
Thanks for the data!

I added it to the electrical loads page in our wiki:
Electrical Loads - EcoModder
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2010, 08:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
I would tend to give more weight to the derived value than the road tested one because as noted road testing is so loaded with variables. The general agreement with the results is good though!

__________________


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY LED Headlights SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 44 09-06-2011 08:48 PM
Using Magnets to increase milage hondo434 Off-Topic Tech 71 08-13-2010 01:48 AM
Engine-off experiment mattW Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 8 02-18-2008 01:57 AM
Cost of Gas VS Cost of Food Peakster The Lounge 13 02-08-2008 09:15 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com