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Old 12-07-2016, 06:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
So far I'm not seeing any news about this on the U.S. eco car blogs.
Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Takes the MPG Crown

Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Rated 58 MPG Overall - Gas 2

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...-toyota-prius/

2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Becomes New Fuel Economy Champ With 58 Mpg

I think we all just blinked and missed it.

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Old 12-07-2016, 07:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Gen I insight beat the prius on MPG on the first try 17 years ago.

When they are here in the real world on our shores we can see what the differences are between a PRII and an Ioniq, my guess is the PRII will stay more "practical" regardless of smallish MPG differences.

That said, like GM I do not trust Ioniq fuel economy numbers in Apples to APples.

EPA should require the "crossover" MPG at about 50 degrees farenheit to be listed on the placard.

That way if you see the car continuously gets the EPA at say 45mph, you know you have a dud.
Yes, but that gen 1 insight isn't a 4 door or meet the same safety standards.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yes, but that gen 1 insight isn't a 4 door or meet the same safety standards.
2 vs 5 people... there are so many differences that it is like comparing a ferret to a rat - they are both rodents and that is where is all ends.

The Insight was a visionary car - in its day. It is now an ageing car that is eclipsed by lots of others that offer lots more functionality and safety without the 2 seat compromise.

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Old 12-08-2016, 10:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ksa8907 View Post
Yes, but that gen 1 insight isn't a 4 door or meet the same safety standards.
It had to meet the same safety standards as the 2000-2006 Prius and was rated quite well from what I remember.

If a new 2 door Insight were built today I have no doubt it could be built to easily meet the safety standards we have currently.

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Old 12-08-2016, 10:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I've seen an Ioniq at my Hyundai dealership and it is nice, but very much like my 2nd gen Insight.
It must be smaller and lighter than the Prius.

https://www.hyundai.news/eu/models/ioniq-a-leap-forward-for-hybrid-vehicles/

With its DCT gearbox and 1.6 l, hence small(er than Prius) Atkinson cycle engine I see little room to lose efficiency.
Toyota's HSD gearbox is an engineering marvel but generally less efficient than a DCT gearbox.
So those MPG claims may well be true.
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks for that image.

Also note the engine claim: "world's highest thermal efficency of 40% (Atkinson cycle)"
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck View Post
2 vs 5 people... there are so many differences that it is like comparing a ferret to a rat - they are both rodents and that is where is all ends.

The Insight was a visionary car - in its day. It is now an ageing car that is eclipsed by lots of others that offer lots more functionality and safety without the 2 seat compromise.

Simon
The rat and ferret are both mammals; but only the rat is a rodent.

The new Prius engine is claimed to be 40% efficient, as well.

The 32kW electric motor in the Ioniq hybrid is claimed to be 95% efficient, so there's that.

Do we know the Cd of the Ioniq?

Edit: Aerohead says the Ioniq is 0.24 - same as the new Prius, so it comes down to frontal area and drivetrain efficiency.

I wonder how the Ioniq (and the new Prius) warms up and / or stores heat from one drive to another?
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79 View Post
Hyundai needs to bring back an equivalent to the original Insight for us cheap-bastiches.
I wouldn't call us cheap, just efficient. What's the point of hauling around an unneeded back seat and all the associated structure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck
... lots more functionality and safety without the 2 seat compromise.
Having 2 seats is NOT a compromise, it's a design feature that is very much wanted by a segment of the buying public. Seen any 4-seat Miatas or Lotuses lately? Nor can I think of any great functionality which the Insight lacks that I'd actually want. Maybe map pockets in the doors?

Last edited by jamesqf; 12-08-2016 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Having 2 seats is NOT a compromise, it's a design feature that is very much wanted by a segment of the buying public. Seen any 4-seat Miatas or Lotuses lately? Nor can I think of any great functionality which the Insight lacks that I'd actually want. Maybe map pockets in the doors?
It is a compromise though. Two-seat cars can only carry two people, and because of this have never sold in large numbers. The Miata is a drop in the bucket in terms of Mazda's yearly sales-- 8,591 cars out of 319,184 in 2015 in the US; Mazda has never sold more than 17,000 Miatas in a year. Lotus peaked at 2604 cars sold in 2007, about twice as many as they sold in Europe that year; last year, they sold 908 cars worldwide.

It should go without saying, but we here on this site are not representative of the preferences of the car-buying public as a whole, so arguing that compromises we would be fine with should be adopted by OEMs as a matter of course isn't very productive; they aren't going to do that because there isn't a business case for it. Honda already demonstrated that with the original Insight, which fell far short of its sales expectations precisely because Honda misjudged the market by introducing a two-seat hybrid that fell to the four-seat Prius, which outsold it more than 10-to-1 the year it was brought to the US, and more than 148-to-1 by the time Honda finally killed the Insight. It's fine that the Insight works for you, but the vast majority of people--whom Honda wants to sell cars--don't feel the same way, so you aren't likely to get another one. If that means we get cars like the Ioniq instead, which are as efficient (more efficient, going by EPA rating) but less space-compromised, that's fine by me.

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