The King is dead: Hyundai Ioniq (58 MPG US EPA combined) beats Prius ECO rating (56)

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

And that is why there is so much smog! All these Insight punters need to let go and realise that saving 20 drops of fuel is not worth killing the atmosphere.

Simon

Nice exaggeration,
the insight was one of the lowest polluters during its production run, beats every pickup made before 2007 and all cars 2000 and older.

Grams of NOx per mile is where we need to be concerned in big cities.

Next SMOG cannot form due to NOx alone, period, can't happen.
SMOG is the combination of particulate, VOC, CO, water and NOx in the atmosphere, the insight had one of the lower particulate and lowest CO emissions of any car during the time.

Add to this that, the drilling, transport and refining of oil into gas emits thousands of times more pollution than burning that same gallon of fuel.

Greenwashing our cars so some other guys kids can get exposed to high levels of VOC near the refinery is intellectually bankrupt.

Further that, getting the oil releases huge amounts of lead, arsenic, mercury and cadmium into the environment.
The petroleum industry also looses 5% (roughly, depending on the year) of all oil as spoilage which could be lost in the wrong ground level, spilled, or lost as VOC, that's hundreds of thousands of PPM,
yet we worry only about a handfull of PPM of NOx coming out of the car?

The only way to ACTUALLY reduce pollution is to use less fuel or focus on cleaning up drilling, transport and refinery practices. (good luck with that)

[elhigh]

^^
There's a bigger picture than just what's coming out of the tailpipe on the car. The car's tailpipe telescopes to a lot of other tailpipes: refinery stacks, fuel truck stacks, tankers, etc.

Saving 20 drops here while emitting a bit more here eliminates even more drops and a LOT more emissions elsewhere. It's an investment with an immediate return.

And RE: the Ioniq. Even if it got way better mileage than the Prius, I wouldn't trust it. Hyundai's reputation was forever poisoned with me based on the utterly horrible reliability of a 1987 Excel. Yes, 30 years have passed. I don't care.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by LittleBlackDuck

And that is why there is so much smog! All these Insight punters need to let go and realise that saving 20 drops of fuel is not worth killing the atmosphere.

NOx and diesel particulates will cost much more in the longer term than a small amount of extra fuel.

Simon

The Insight has two catalytic converters and I'm betting it would easily pass today's emissions standards. However, those cats are full of precious metals and not cheap. Running Atkinson cycle achieves almost the same thing anyway.

InsightCentral.net - Knowledge Base - Honda Insight Emissions Standards

As Vman455 says though, it ultimately boils down to Honda wanting to sell cars in volume, at a profit. The Insight's design was not profitable, it was a "halo product" and proof of concept which would have taken them deeply into the red had they made more of them, and had there been consumer demand to match.

The Insight is no longer the most aerodynamic car on the road, but it's still darn close. It probably doesn't have the most efficient engine ever built, 16 years later, but it's also still darn close. I expect what it's lacking most are modern safety features such as side airbags, traction control, that sort of thing.

EDIT: That said, I find the Ioniq very interesting. I might have to visit a Hyundai dealer and putt around in one when they hit the streets.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

I'm with daox. The prius has taken several iterations to get to the current level of FE, now hyundai suddenly can do better on its first try? Call me skeptical.

I'm also quite skeptical about the fuel economy rating of the Ioniq, mostly because during its development it had been sometimes quoted to be closer to the definition of a mild-hybrid than a full-hybrid. But anyway, even though the DCT is going to add weight, complexity and some friction to its powertrain, Hyundai had a lot of time to figure out the achievements and mistakes from Toyota in the long run.

[roflwaffle]

The EPA data file has the Prius Eco ~3.5mpg ahead of the Ioniq Blue on the uncorrected combined mpg rating, but somehow the Ioniq is ~2mpg ahead on the corrected rating.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/17data.zip

That seems kind of strange, but INL testing should hash things out, assuming it isn't cut by the new administration.

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all...n-architecture

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

The EPA data file has the Prius Eco ~3.5mpg ahead of the Ioniq Blue on the uncorrected combined mpg rating, but somehow the Ioniq is ~2mpg ahead on the corrected rating.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/17data.zip

That seems kind of strange, but INL testing should hash things out, assuming it isn't cut by the new administration.

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all...n-architecture

I've often thought the epa highway rating cross over speed at say 50 degrees F should be listed.

Doing so would remove any testing bias since cars with higher crossover speeds would actually perform.

Most GM products have a cross over speed of only 50mph, Hondas usually 65mph

Next the Ioniq is sort of vaporware , it should have been on sale MONTHS now.

It's possible they aren't achieving their goals and new management sees low gas prices and wants to delay.

Hopefully it means we get a much better product

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Next the Ioniq is sort of vaporware , it should have been on sale MONTHS now.

I've sat in one months ago at the dealership, and see them in traffic over here almost daily. Almost as common as the 2nd gen Insight already.
But we do have an active Hyundai dealer in town and another one close by.

If they are holding back sales in the USA, they sure don't here.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

I've sat in one months ago at the dealership, and see them in traffic over here almost daily. Almost as common as the 2nd gen Insight already.
But we do have an active Hyundai dealer in town and another one close by.

If they are holding back sales in the USA, they sure don't here.

Yep I'm only talking the us version.

There is no indication of when they will turn up for sale here

Based on dealer statements it's unlikely to come to our shores before June and when it does it's likely going to be by special order only and effectively a carb compliance car for at least a year.

I guess I'm the kid in the candy shop, I've waited my whole life for electrification and am tired of how slow the 20 year ev rollout has gone.
(You can only eat so many mars bars before you want something different like a snickers)

[gone-ot]

MOUNDS™ versus ALMOND JOY™ ?

[ME_Andy]

58 mpg is cool, but I don't see why anybody would buy a new eco ride when you can get a good, used EV for <$10k.