Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #221 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,223 Times in 4,650 Posts
all across

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFECO View Post
aerohead...yes I saw that. Boy if they would do that on a grid pattern all across the front, ground level to the roof line.....then we'd really see the whole "picture".
They probably do for their own consumption,but it's for their eyes only.Too bad for us.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-21-2013, 01:54 PM   #222 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,895
Thanks: 23,972
Thanked 7,223 Times in 4,650 Posts
test me

Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Test me.

What I see in post #219 and third image in post #216 is the smoke loosing all definition in the flow, becoming one hazy cloud adjacent to the body. In post 219, I'm assuming this effect reflects the higher pressures at the front of the roof that then drop as we move aft. And in the thrid image in post 216 it might be a similar presure effect compounded by the turbulence created by the front wheel well.

Assuming I'm in the general ballpark of understanding these images, post 219's image, which seems to be unusually close to the template ideal at the front end and along the roof line, suggests strongly the limits of front end aero. Won't the wake on this body be quite large without boat tailing?

Also, the third image in post 216 suggests that a skirt on the rear wheel wells will have much less benefit without front wheel well skirts, yes? Expect turbulence.
This is complicated without a plan-view of the boxfish.
*The high pressure will occur right in front of the grille.
*The highest velocity pressure (lowest static pressure) will occur just ahead of the windshield header/A-pillars.
*As the flow moves behind the line of maximum body crossection,the velocity pressure will begin to fall off as the static pressure begins to build,in compliance with the Bournoulli Theorem.
*As the flow breaks away at the rear,it is as slow as it's going to get at this body length,and its pressure the highest,leading to a higher static pressure in the wake,or base drag.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*If you analyze the Boxfish in side elevation only,the Aerodynamic Streamlining Template would predict only Cd 0.255 for Boxfish.
*However,Mercedes-Benz has moved the side body camber to a forward bias,beginning the plan-view boat-tailing before the side elevation boat-tailing.
*From the side,Boxfish's forebody = 52% of total body length,with 48% aft-body.
*She has a Length/Height ratio of 2.56.
*We have no exact data about her plan-view.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In comparison,FIAT constructed a 'boxfish-like' test model in 1986,with only L/D= 2.347 and achieved Cd 0.17.
*In side elevation the forebody= 60% body length,aft-body= 40%.
*In plan-view,forebody= 40%,aft-body= 60%.
*Fiat moved the side body camber maximum point from between the wheelbase,to the rear of the front tire,beginning the plan taper forward,as the Schl'o'rwagen of the 1930s.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
With the forward-biased plan taper,the wake region is deceptively narrow compared to the body height,leading to a smaller than expected wake.
*Renault's 1987 Vesta II was constructed the same way,achieving Cd 0.19 with a remarkably short car.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Without accurate plan views it's very difficult to understand airflow across a car.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (12-21-2013), freebeard (12-21-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:22 PM   #223 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
AERODYNAMICS


__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:32 PM   #224 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
Mercedes CLA is world's most aerodynamic car
Mercedes CLA is world's most aerodynamic car | Car News | Compact luxury saloons | Autocar India

Quote:
Feb 8, 2013
Mercedes-Benz claims its new CLA180 BlueEfficiency Edition is the world’s most aerodynamically efficient series production road car, with an overall drag co-efficient of 0.22.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 12-27-2013 at 11:19 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013), California98Civic (12-26-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:41 PM   #225 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
http://www.mira.co.uk/our-services/f...d-tunnel-(fswt)

Quote:
Smoke flow visualization.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru_svx.html



http://www.engr.uky.edu/~fml/gallery.html
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:47 PM   #226 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
FKFS: Research In Motion: Aerodynamic measuring technology


Aerodynamics for Students


__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:51 PM   #227 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
UNIVERSITÄT SIEGEN
Information in english



__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 07:53 PM   #228 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
Bird Flight



http://****yeahfluiddynamics.tumblr....ayer-of-a-cone

Quote:
Smoke introduced into the boundary layer of a cone rotating in a stream highlights the transition from laminar to turbulent flow.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-27-2013), California98Civic (12-26-2013), Cd (12-26-2013)
Old 12-26-2013, 08:24 PM   #229 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post
Wow this first one is cool... and I like this image too, on the same site:



Amazing the difference made by the modest change between the first on the left and the next one to the right.

And I don't believe Mercedes on this claim:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kach22i View Post
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bird_body_drag.jpg
Views:	760
Size:	13.3 KB
ID:	14299  
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.




Last edited by California98Civic; 12-26-2013 at 08:34 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 11:18 AM   #230 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Wow this first one is cool... and I like this image too, on the same site:
I'm just waiting for someone to point out that the aerodynamics would be better if the bird was going backwards.

__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com