Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2018, 10:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,276

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 50.45 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 64.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,358
Thanked 5,201 Times in 2,639 Posts
What the heck happened to my clutch? It was crap, then self-healed.



The clutch in my winter beater 2000 Metro has always been annoying garbage ... until it apparently "self-healed" this week.

Note: it shouldn't be worn out. The previous owner replaced it in 2013, about 25k kms ago.

Symptoms prior to this week:
  • An exceedingly thin friction point that made it very challenging to engage smoothly, (but it could be done with more concentration than normal)
  • Sometimes noisy (vaguely rattly) in gear or out, clutch up or down
  • Loud squeal from the friction surfaces when slipping it aggressively from a stop

Then this week, I took off from a stop more aggressively than usual (on a hill, too) and it squealed like a stuck pig (which I expected). Probably the hardest launch I've done to the car.

Demon be gone!

At the next stop, as I pushed in the clutch to go into 1st gear, there was a distinct "clank!" and a brief rattling, as if something had fallen off something else and bounced around inside a metal case.

Immediately following that, the clutch has worked normally! Normal friction point, much quieter, no more mystery rattles. And it squeals much less when slipping aggressively.

Any ideas what was wrong before? I've never done any clutch work in my life. But I'm guessing maybe something was lodged in the clutch disc, caught either between the flywheel or the pressure plate... screwing things up, until it flew out. Does that make any sense?

__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-02-2018, 11:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,038

'91 Miata - '91 Mazda Miata
90 day: 27.11 mpg (US)

'86 Fiero GT - '86 Pontiac Fiero GT

Purple Penny Pincher - '95 Pontiac Firefly Base
90 day: 43.68 mpg (US)

Jett-Black - '01 Volkswagen Jetta
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 32.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 294 Times in 220 Posts
Hmm.

Doesn't explain your self-heal, unless it finally knocked it completely loose and out of the clutch somehow...but I pulled the trans to replace the clutch on one of my cars and found one of the springs (I assume they are there to avoid chatter and/or absorb drive-line vibrations) on the clutch disk had a coil or so broken off. It was stuck in there. Different symptoms though...clutch would NOT disengage. Figure it was jammed in there, stopping things from working properly. Maybe you've just dislodged a spring that was broken and messing things up.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 11:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
Ol' Skooler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 964

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 45.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 47
Thanked 128 Times in 106 Posts
I'm wondering if maybe the flywheel and friction material needed to be bedded in? I can't explain the clanking though.

Last time I had a clutch clank, it was because the idiots who had replaced my clutch apparently used an air ratchet to drive down the flywheel bolts...they sheared and my flywheel suddenly found itself no longer connected to the engine.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - the better half's car
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 12:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,276

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 50.45 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 64.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,358
Thanked 5,201 Times in 2,639 Posts
^ whoops!

I had been talking about this earlier with Tim, and the idea of busted damper springs came up. It might have explained the noises.

I wonder if a loose part of a coil was the culprit, jammed somewhere on the clutch surface. That would explain the messed up friction point and excessive squealing.

Whatever it is, I bet it's sitting in the bottom of the transaxle bell housing right now. The mystery will have to wait until I swap transmissions... I have an extra one from a Swift 1.3 SOHC with the tallest 3.52 final drive.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 02:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,038

'91 Miata - '91 Mazda Miata
90 day: 27.11 mpg (US)

'86 Fiero GT - '86 Pontiac Fiero GT

Purple Penny Pincher - '95 Pontiac Firefly Base
90 day: 43.68 mpg (US)

Jett-Black - '01 Volkswagen Jetta
90 day: 39.32 mpg (US)

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 32.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 294 Times in 220 Posts
I'm pretty sure there's a little cover/inspection plate at the bottom of the bellhousing. Just 4x 10mm bolts, irrc...if something came loose, you can probably get it out now.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 01:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Panelia, Finland
Posts: 70

Yaris verso - '02 Toyota Yaris Verso

Unto - '04 Fiat Punto

Liam nissan - '98 Nissan Almera
Thanks: 4
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
We had some shaking/studder in the yaris versos clutch. Whole car would shake when taking off in 1st gear.
That also vanished with time works just fine now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 01:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
Furry Furfag
 
Baltothewolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 2,056

Winsight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 56.86 mpg (US)

Miaderp - '95 Mazda Miata
90 day: 28.53 mpg (US)
Thanks: 67
Thanked 380 Times in 292 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post


The clutch in my winter beater 2000 Metro has always been annoying garbage ... until it apparently "self-healed" this week.

Note: it shouldn't be worn out. The previous owner replaced it in 2013, about 25k kms ago.

Symptoms prior to this week:
  • An exceedingly thin friction point that made it very challenging to engage smoothly, (but it could be done with more concentration than normal)
  • Sometimes noisy (vaguely rattly) in gear or out, clutch up or down
  • Loud squeal from the friction surfaces when slipping it aggressively from a stop

Then this week, I took off from a stop more aggressively than usual (on a hill, too) and it squealed like a stuck pig (which I expected). Probably the hardest launch I've done to the car.

Demon be gone!

At the next stop, as I pushed in the clutch to go into 1st gear, there was a distinct "clank!" and a brief rattling, as if something had fallen off something else and bounced around inside a metal case.

Immediately following that, the clutch has worked normally! Normal friction point, much quieter, no more mystery rattles. And it squeals much less when slipping aggressively.

Any ideas what was wrong before? I've never done any clutch work in my life. But I'm guessing maybe something was lodged in the clutch disc, caught either between the flywheel or the pressure plate... screwing things up, until it flew out. Does that make any sense?
The clutch probably wasn't broken in properly, and the flywheel had glazed over. It's a common problem that's often fixed by a hard clutch dump. Same thing happens to brakes as well.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 07:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,276

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 50.45 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 64.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,358
Thanked 5,201 Times in 2,639 Posts
Would glaze have caused the clutch to be noisy when engaged and driving along? It was definitely transmitting some vibrations before.

Maybe I should do some more hard launches!
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 08:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,295

Traverse 2LT FWD - '12 Chevrolet Traverse 2LT
90 day: 21.2 mpg (US)

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 40.27 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 126.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 274 Times in 181 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Would glaze have caused the clutch to be noisy when engaged and driving along? It was definitely transmitting some vibrations before.

Maybe I should do some more hard launches!
It's hard to tell exactly what the issue was without inspection or having seen/heard it beforehand. Glazing would explain what you describe though, especially if the installer didn't properly clean the mating surfaces.

Friction is energy trying to transfer and some of it is spent as heat, some as sound. It would make sense if there was inadequate friction that there would be a very short action of engagement and noise while slipping.

Hope it keeps on working for you!
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 11:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
wdb
lurker's apprentice
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: the Perimeter
Posts: 762

PlainJane - '12 Toyota Tacoma Base 4WD Access Cab
90 day: 20.98 mpg (US)
Thanks: 282
Thanked 154 Times in 118 Posts
I'm going with something to do with the pressure plate or throwout bearing.

There is virtually zero clearance between the clutch disk and the mating surfaces on either side of it when the clutch is disengaged; disengagement merely allows the clutch plate to spin freely between them. Something lodging in there and rattling when the clutch is engaged is pretty much impossible.

OTOH something lodging in a dumb place in the pressure plate is definitely possible, and could definitely mess with clutch actuation in a variety of ways.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com