Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-21-2018, 01:20 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 96 Times in 69 Posts
2000 Echo random stalling

I've had this car about 1 1/2 years now but it developed a random bog/stall a couple of weeks ago. Friday before last, three time in the first mile or two of driving to work it bogged like it was running out of gas. I stepped on the clutch and it picked up again and ran okay for a bit. It was fine in the afternoon and most of the day Sunday. Sunday night it did the same thing but sputtered a bit before it picked up. Ran fine a mile or so to the store and a mile home. Just before getting home, it stalled completely. Cranked fine but wouldn't fire. threw a bottle of gas line antifreeze in the tank. Tried again about ten minutes later and it started and ran fine. tank was low so thought it could have been ice. Both days temp was below -15*F with -40* windchills, but car had been plugged in or running some. Engine was cool but not cold. Gassed it up on Monday. It was fine all week then stalled again yesterday. Temp was only 3*F and engine plugged in.

It did restart after 15-30 seconds of cranking but ran rough for a few seconds like it was starving for fuel or missing. Ran fine the rest of the day and today. I should say that I have an injector kill switch wired into the injector power wire. It's worked flawlessly for almost a year now. I did change the relay for that circuit yesterday after the stall but I don't think that would cause it, at least not directly. Every failure has been after using the kill switch but it always restarts then bogs or stalls a few seconds later. There is no CEL or stored codes and short term fuel trim is normal when it's running. I changed plugs, pcv, MAF and O2 sensors last year because of a P0171 code and the engine hasn't been exposed to any water.

It's really hard to troubleshoot being so intermittent, but now I don't trust it. Any thoughts on a possible cause or a test that might show something even without a failure? I was wondering if the fuel pump might be starting to fail. Anyone know if fuel pumps have caused much trouble on these cars?

__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-21-2018, 08:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
Yeah, intermittent problems are a pain.

If its a fueling issue, you can likely test it. Spin the engine up to higher RPMs and keep the load high. If it can't keep up, you'll have repeatable issues.

Does it do this when the engine is warm or cold or both?
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
puddleglum (02-22-2018)
Old 02-21-2018, 09:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 96 Times in 69 Posts
It's only ever failed within the first mile or so of driving. Weather has been cold but engine has just been cool. I don't accelerate hard until Engine is warmed up but I was accelerating except the last time. Then I was just starting to pull away from a light. Hasn't done it again since Monday, strange.
__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2018, 09:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,745

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 38.02 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 132.26 mpg (US)

Yukon Denali Hybrid - '12 GMC Yukon Denali Hybrid
90 day: 21.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 420 Times in 302 Posts
Does the car use an egr? I have had experience where the egr would not close fast enough when rolling off the throttle and would stall the car, not the same one you have though. Maybe some debris on the maf?

I would say check the intake air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor.
__________________




  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ksa8907 For This Useful Post:
puddleglum (02-22-2018)
Old 02-21-2018, 11:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,747

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 75
Thanked 576 Times in 426 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
Hasn't done it again since Monday, strange.
Maybe it was your relay?
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stubby79 For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (02-22-2018), puddleglum (02-22-2018)
Old 02-22-2018, 01:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 96 Times in 69 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksa8907 View Post
Does the car use an egr? I have had experience where the egr would not close fast enough when rolling off the throttle and would stall the car, not the same one you have though. Maybe some debris on the maf?

I would say check the intake air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor.
the Echo doesn't use an egr valve. Why were you thinking temp sensors?
__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 10:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Stubby79 called it. You replaced something and the symptom went away. Wait and see if it comes back before changing anything. Do you have the factory service manual? On the older cars these can often be found free in PDF online. I have a bunch of FSMs for my 98 Civic and other civics. The trouble-shooting sections, I guess intended for dealership mechanics encountering the car new, aree often great and authoritative.

One nagging question: wouldn't the resistor fail throw a CEL?
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 12:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
puddleglum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Red Deer, AB
Posts: 421

Rondo - '07 Kia Rondo EX
Last 3: 20.47 mpg (US)

Tinkertoy2 - '00 Toyota Echo base
Team Toyota
Last 3: 46.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 39
Thanked 96 Times in 69 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Do you have the factory service manual?

One nagging question: wouldn't the resistor fail throw a CEL?
I do have an online version of the service manual, it's been helpful since the Haynes manual for the Echo is out of print.

If by resistor you meant the relay, no it wouldn't. It's a normally closed relay mounted in the power supply wire to the injectors. The computer doesn't monitor that wire from what I can tell. That's why I chose that location. If it is the cause, the only way I can see it could cause the problem would be that the contacts didn't close properly causing too much voltage drop to run properly, but enough to allow it to start. That's a bit of a long shot, but it's running just fine now so until it fails again, there's not much more I can do other than prepare for further testing.
__________________



Almost all my driving is done 1-5 miles at a time.
Best short trip: 2.4 l/100 km, 3.9 km
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 10:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
Any update? Did the problem stay away?
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 11:36 AM   #10 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
I'm curious too. I had some problems on my Echo but nothing quite like you describe.

Man I need to get on with finding an FSM for my Civic. Had one online for the Echo and it was great.

__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com