Considering an E85 Experiment

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by Lessendz

t
unfortunately that same Larger % of ethanol will attack the fuel storage/delivery system even quicker than E10 does..

e)

fuel line made in the last 20 years is pretty much impervious to ethanol.

[Lessendz]

nope sorry bOss
Costs too much to do that across the board
they've made it better, Yes
impervious, No

SAE rates by low permeation THRU the material
most of todays SAE high pressure(fuel injection) line only has a THIN inner liner of fluorinated rubber..
Subersible high pressure fuel line (for inside your fuelcell/gastank)
is fully Florinated & Aramid fiber reinforced and generally costs 4x as much

do u really want to chance increased Ethanol% to breakdown & carry sludge into your fuel filter & clog it?
Turbo Evo's guys who have switched to E85 have complain about black sludge in the fuel filter.. wanna take a guess what that is??

cause That is the exact problem Boat owners & Dirtbike riders had here..
extended periods of E10 just sitting in the line,
as well as E10's terrible storage/evaporative/phase separation qualities led to..

a Huge lawsuit by Boat owners (LOTS fishermen here)
saying E10 was a problem for them..
we now have pumps which serve [89]octane (Neat gasoline) by boat harbors around the island of Oahu..
prices range from Same as [92] E10 to 10cents higher than [92] E10

btw: i pretty much Only run [89]octane NeatGasoline in my V8 tundra & Mom's Scion xA
Both make more power @ low RPM than on [92] E10
with slightly better part-throttle power production at Low RPM as well..
(Low RPM ~ as in under 3k)

[roosterk0031]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

What do you recalibrate?

The SGII, any time I change fuel blends, I have to run a tank or 3 to get the calibate it to how much fuel is used. The indicated MPG is useful but not accurate. I think SGII actually measures air flow and uses that to calculate how much fuel is used.

[Allch Chcar]

The black sludge is normal after switching from Gasoline to E85. It goes away after a couple hundred miles and requires a fuel filter change.

[Frank Lee]

I've never changed a filter after switching to E85 and it's been many years and several vehicles.

[Allch Chcar]

It's only for the first time a vehicle is run on Ethanol, the fuel filter can clog from the decade or more of Gasoline residue left in the system being suddenly flushed out. The same thing happens for biodiesel. I actually saw it happen on a tv show about alt fuels. A woman had a S-10 with a turbine engine from an old helicopter in it, so it ran on diesel. They put biodiesel in it and it died on the highway during a road trip. They changed the fuel filter, even said they expected this to happen within the first few hundred miles. Ran fine after that.

[Lessendz]

happened to brand New Dirtbikes and Boats which have Never seen E0 and ONLY E10
gasoline residue is black?
i don't see anything "black" in gasoline..
Neat gasoline has MANY excellent solvents in it..
E10 has an even higher % of solvents..

LMK when Consistent cycle by cycle combustion pressure from High flame speeds regardless of EGR or dilute/weak mixture strength is worth anything to ya

tell u right now quite a bit of gasoline based fuel Does burn.. but is Wasted..
because it doesn't combust Quickly enough for the Engine to capture/leverage it...

for combustion efficiency u burn small% Meth
not High% moonshine

[Allch Chcar]

Carbon deposits are black. And you're right Ethanol has more solvent than 'Pure' Gasoline. E85 more so. I can't understand the rest of what you said, except to contradict you since Ethanol is almost identical to Methanol. Methanol has a slower burn speed and more oxygen so it has lower energy density than even Ethanol. But put into an engine and the difference is minor compared to the difference between Gasoline and Ethanol. They're both alcohols and even their octane is very similar.

I have a suspicion that it might be low grade gasoline that is the culprit for the deposits because I checked my fuel filter after E10 became more common and I didn't have any sludge in my fuel filter vs my Dad's buick which had a little bit of black sludge in the fuel filter.

[Lessendz]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Carbon deposits are black. And you're right Ethanol has more solvent than 'Pure' Gasoline. E85 more so. I can't understand the rest ofwhat you said, except to contradict you since Ethanol is almost identical to Methanol. Methanol has a slower burn speed and more oxygen so it has lower energy density than even Ethanol. But put into an engine and the difference is minor compared to the difference between Gasoline and Ethanol. They're both alcohols and even their octane is very similar.

read more "Books" and google less internet..
to actually Learn how internal combustion engines operate.
and how various types of fuels/blends affect the equation/tune.
Especially before ya spread any more "misinformation"

yes..
ethanol & methanol are both Alcohols
unfortunately Meth is chemically MUCH more active
meth burns Clean (almost invisible flame)
ethanol will create soot (yellow flame)

Ethanol's latent heat of vaporization gives you *Double* the temp drop of most standard gasoline blends..
Methanol's latent heat of vaporization gives you *Triple* the temp drop of most standard gasoline blends..

Methanol has fast Laminar Burn Velocity
(i got a nice chart sitting right in front of me showing various equivalence ratio's, Do you?)

and the BIG key for internal combustion engines..
Methanol has the ability to Retain Quick flameSpeeds/combustionRate thru Less than ideal conditions
(I.E. weak/dilute mixture strengths and/or EGR)
Ethanol does NOT have this level of ability..
FYI: quick flame speeds = more complete Combustion
which generates combustion chamber pressure in the window of time your engine can ACTUALLY capture it Best!!
BTW: gasoline's "octane ratings" don't really apply once alcohol is added into the fuel/equation.. the problem lies in the parameters of the RON/MON tests


for light blends of Meth gasohol..
the Meth is used as a combustion accelerant to light off the SLOW burning gasoline components.. (even @ very low throttle / weak mixtures)
quick flame speeds are now a "Chemical characteristic"
opposed to fiddling with the ignition timing to adjust when/where a slow burning fuel is best utilized by your engine (what ECU tuning is about)

for Light/moderate blends of Ethanol gasohol..
you get lower BTU's combined with standard flame speeds..
(not a good combination for efficiency or MPG)

*Bonus info*
first 200seconds of Cold Engine startup/warmup
Methanolized gasoline emits LESS regulated emissions than neatGasoline or E10

your choice eco modders..
making power and getting MPG's do NOT necessarily have to be on opposing ends of the spectrum..

[Allch Chcar]

We need a separate thread for this.