Ford to stop selling cars in North America

[redpoint5]

Touch screens are a horrible interface for everything ever. They just happen to be ok for input while maximizing screen real-estate.

I'm always asking how extensively the Model 3 can be controlled by voice, and people don't seem to really know. I think that will become more common. Pretty easy to tell a computer to set the temperature to 70 degrees without taking your eyes off the road or your hands from the wheel.

[Xist]

My Accord has just under 200,000 miles. I will be more excited about hybrids when their batteries easily last that long.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

My Accord has just under 200,000 miles. I will be more excited about hybrids when their batteries easily last that long.

They do today. I've had two 2nd gen Prii. The 2005 was 12 years old with 150K mile when I sold it. The 2009 was 10 years old with 110K miles. Both had fully functional batteries and got the same mileage as new.

I've talked to the taxi guys around here and they say they get 300-400K miles from a Prius battery.

[Xist]

Yet some are replaced under warranty. I cannot find any data on how long they last on average. The ones that I see on Craigslist either have bad traction batteries or aftermarket ones that will not last as long as the originals.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

Yet some are replaced under warranty. I cannot find any data on how long they last on average. The ones that I see on Craigslist either have bad traction batteries or aftermarket ones that will not last as long as the originals.

Some engines are replaced under warranty but that doesn't mean it is a common occurrence.

Toyota warranties batteries for 10 years / 150,000 miles. If for some reason the battery failed out of warranty a brand new one from Toyota is only $2600 and requires 2 hours of labor to swap. That might sound like a lot but how much does a modern 6-10 speed transmission cost? (The Prius doesn't have a transmission but instead uses a single planetary gear set)

If you don't want to worry about a battery the conventional ICE Accord is good for 32 mpg. 45% better then 2000 isn't half bad. I had a new 2019 Accord for a rental last month and managed 39.5 mpg.

[niky]

Originally Posted by Xist

Completely unrelated, but I am still trying to write progress reports, which were hopefully not due at 1700, but instead midnight tonight.

I just heard on the news that Fiat-Chrysler lost a lawsuit about emissions fraud.

Has anyone shared that yet?

Haven't seen it here, but I've seen it on Fleecebook.

Amazing that they managed to keep the news so low-key.

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by Xist

I just heard on the news that Fiat-Chrysler lost a lawsuit about emissions fraud.

Fake news, actually. There's really not much to it on Chrysler's end. It was in the software and it was very well optimized for the EPA tests and when driven like a normal person was dirtier:

CA’s suit appears to differ from VW’s scandal in that VW’s defeat device actually sensed when the vehicle was being tested by the government on a dyno, and turned up emissions controls accordingly. FCA, on the other hand, appears to have optimized its emissions controls software to the EPA’s drive cycles too narrowly, and not focused on keeping emissions down in off-cycle, normal on-road conditions.

It's kind of like the mpg rating: if you drive it like a tester does, you get better mileage than when you drive it like an idiot. Turns out emissions also got worse when an idiot was thrashing the gas pedal. Chrysler's recall is going to update the software to reduce emissions over a wider range of driving styles (and throw in a warranty extension to encourage people to do the update) and they're going to owe money to some customers whose gas pedal stomping fun is now going to suffer a bit.

Volkswagen, on the other hand, flat out cheated. Like a business that kept two sets of books, all their diesels had two distinct operating modes and switched to "clean" mode when a test was being performed. Some of VW's cars simply cannot be made to pass and had to be bought back. That's a newsworthy scandal.

It's not that anyone is keeping quiet about FCA, there just isn't much to tell. Is it news that driving inefficiently is... inefficient?

[hayden55]

If you see 04-15 Toyota Pri's with bad batteries send them my way! It's not really a secret anymore but you can discharge and charge the batteries on a charger, measure Ah capacity remaining in the cells and keep the good ones and toss the old ones very easily. Rebuilding the pack of 28 cells typically cost a max of like 600$. Much less if you actually test your cells vs just tossing all of them. If you just do a swap of all cells I'd say a couple hours and you're done. Plus the cells are just in a rack vs spot welded like the damn Honda batteries.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

Fake news, actually. There's really not much to it on Chrysler's end. It was in the software and it was very well optimized for the EPA tests and when driven like a normal person was dirtier

Yes, Fiat's engines where "well optimized" for the EPA test in that they turned off emission controls when the vehicle recorded conditions outside of an EPA test. These include:

Temperature - Above 95F and below 50F
Speed - Above 60 mph
Miles - After 12 miles have been driven

Now none of this is new. Automakers have been installing defeat devices since the emission testing started. Some examples:

1. In 1973 Chrysler, Ford, GM, Toyota, and VW got caught changing fuel mixture based on temperature outside of the test conditions
2. In 1996 GM got caught turning off emission controls when the heat or A/C is on (They aren't on in the test)
3. In 1997 Ford got caught turning off emission controls when speeds exceed the maximum on the EPA test
4. In 1998 Honda got caught changing spark advance to allow more pollution when speeds exceed the maximum on the EPA test
5. In 1998 pretty much every heavy duty truck manufacture got caught dialing back emission controls when the truck exceeded the maximum time for the EPA test. (This was the first time the fine / repair was in the billions of dollars)

[JSH]

Originally Posted by hayden55

If you see 04-15 Toyota Pri's with bad batteries send them my way! It's not really a secret anymore but you can discharge and charge the batteries on a charger, measure Ah capacity remaining in the cells and keep the good ones and toss the old ones very easily. Rebuilding the pack of 28 cells typically cost a max of like 600$. Much less if you actually test your cells vs just tossing all of them. If you just do a swap of all cells I'd say a couple hours and you're done. Plus the cells are just in a rack vs spot welded like the damn Honda batteries.

It is so well known that there are companies that do this for you. They mix and match cells to make "remanufactured" packs and do the swap in your driveway for $1000.