How to prevent wild fires.

[Piotrsko]

Part of the LA disaster is caused by growing very flammable things near to or against against the house. A juniper flames the same rate as a hlowtorch and unless you constantly remove the icky dead center is easy to light. Second place is to remove the cheepo cellulose insulation in the attic, install fire rated vent screens and stucco the outside or re do it in Mansfield cement siding. Loose the cedar shingle roof. Loose the 50 year old asphaltic roofing. There are examples of solitary houses all over this fiasco that didn't burn

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Part of the LA disaster is caused by growing very flammable things near to or against against the house. A juniper flames the same rate as a hlowtorch and unless you constantly remove the icky dead center is easy to light. Second place is to remove the cheepo cellulose insulation in the attic, install fire rated vent screens and stucco the outside or re do it in Mansfield cement siding. Loose the cedar shingle roof. Loose the 50 year old asphaltic roofing. There are examples of solitary houses all over this fiasco that didn't burn

Yeah juniper burns almost like my "Petro logs" which is firewood that has been soaked in used motor oil for a day and left to sit for several days to several weeks.

[Isaac Zachary]

My dream house would be made of ACC blocks (a type of concrete block if you didn't already know) with mineral wool panels on the outside clad with cement board siding. If possible, I'd also go with a concrete roof. Add some mineral wool lined exterior window shutters and the house would be virtually fire proof, water proof, better at survivng earthquakes (at least the walls, maybe I should go with a wood truss roof) and have an excellent insulation R value and thermal mass.

[freebeard]

You'd think there would be a market for that. People are inclined to put back what was there instead of doing better. Else (worse yet) it's the demolition phase of the new 15-minute cities.

I'd say hemispherical shape without overhangs or protrusions so burning embers blow around it instead of being caught. Like the Aerocivic with snowflakes.

Eight foot deck with patio doors. It would be hinged near the wall line so you could sweep the tables and chairs off, knock out some chocks and the whole counterweighted thing would close up over the doors and windows.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Why does no one want to talk about low-cost energy-efficient disaster-proof housing? If they're doing it behind my back there's no evidence yet.

Some things are obvious -- zero-overhang roofs and spark arrestors on the vents. Known since 1961

I still wonder how effective my two $5 sprinkler heads strapped to the roof would have been? It took me about 30min to dig them out, put a ladder up, and ratchet strap them to vent pipes on the roof. It had 100% coverage of the roof, and 95% coverage of the property (very tiny lot).

It doesn't solve the problem of embers being sucked through the soffits, which might be the most common method that ignition takes place (someone correct me if they know). My pathetic soffit vents have bug screens that would prevent any ember larger than a couple mm enter though.


Finally, why do we build with wood anyhow? The rest of the house is already fireproof (fiberglass, drywall, Hardy siding... about the only things that can catch on fire are the wood frame and wood sheathing.

If roof sprinklers would provide good fire prevention, it would be dirt cheap to add to the construction. A PVC pipe at each end of the house extending up beyond the roof height, with impact sprinklers attached, and a standard fitting to attach a hose. Probably $50 in materials.

Sprinklers on roof

[freebeard]

Finally, why do we build with wood anyhow?

It's quick and easy?

Ceramic houses
Ceramic houses are buildings made of an earth mixture which is high in clay, and fired to become ceramic. The process of building and firing such houses was developed by Iranian architect, Nader Khalili, in the late 1970s. he named it Geltaftan; "Gel", means "clay", and "taftan", means "firing, baking, and weaving clay" in Persian. Wikipedia

In the 1970s it was individual hand-crafted ceramic housing; today it's injection molded geopolymer:

Geoship SPC
Geoship | Bioceramic domes
Geoship offers innovative bioceramic domes designed for sustainable, regenerative, and eco-friendly living. Our resilient, affordable homes integrate nature, promote community, and are built to last. Discover how Geoship is redefining housing with a regenerative approach for a better future.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Finally, why do we build with wood anyhow? The rest of the house is already fireproof (fiberglass, drywall, Hardy siding... about the only things that can catch on fire are the wood frame and wood sheathing.

It's all about cost. Wood is cheap. It's quick to install. It's also strong, so you don't need a lot of material to make the building strong.

It's like drywall and fiberglass. There are a lot of materials out there, both for structure, insulation and finished surfaces that are fire proof water proof, and better for a lot of other things too. But get water or fire in a modern house, and you have to rebuild the thing.

That's the general problem with sprinklers. I don't see your roof sprinkler idea doing much. Too much area to try to keep from catching on fire. Sprinklers work on the inside, but then you have to replace the carpets and drywall.

[freebeard]

But get water or fire in a modern house, and you have to rebuild the thing.

Every time you see a bare 2x4 stud frame out in the weather in rainy season, that's a building that will be susceptible to black mold once it's closed in.

Here's what we thought today would be like in 1970, the The 1970 Pepsi Pavilion in Osaka. From IEEE:

spectrum.ieee.org: WHEN ARTISTS, ENGINEERS, AND PEPSICO COLLABORATED, THEN CLASHED AT THE 1970 WORLD’S FAIR

Image: E.A.T. The diagram shows how visitors entered at the right, descended into the laser-filled “clam room," and ascended steps into the mirror dome.


Artificial fog, illuminated at night by high-intensity xenon lights, obscured the pavilion's sharp lines.

The space mirror interior was supported by a vacuum inside the dome. I wonder what the R-value of that would be.

edit: I can't explain the '?' and horizontal rule (if it's still there)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

It's all about cost. Wood is cheap. It's quick to install. It's also strong, so you don't need a lot of material to make the building strong.

It's like drywall and fiberglass. There are a lot of materials out there, both for structure, insulation and finished surfaces that are fire proof water proof, and better for a lot of other things too. But get water or fire in a modern house, and you have to rebuild the thing.

That's the general problem with sprinklers. I don't see your roof sprinkler idea doing much. Too much area to try to keep from catching on fire. Sprinklers work on the inside, but then you have to replace the carpets and drywall.

I want an erector set frame, which is modular, consistent, and has value after when the original house is dismantled. At bare minimum, it has scrap value, something wooden frames don't have. Wood is junk, and what cavemen use to barely exit the cave.

The rooftop sprinkler would extinguish any flame that came to rest on any surface, except interior ones. That is probably the main flaw, but preventing all shrubbery and bark dust from igniting is not nothing.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The rooftop sprinkler would extinguish any flame that came to rest on any surface, except interior ones. That is probably the main flaw, but preventing all shrubbery and bark dust from igniting is not nothing.

I'm pretty sure that's not the main way fires start in homes. If it's an external fire, it's usually flames up against the house. Some flames can travel quite a distance (from house to house in the suburbs for an example) if there's enough wind. One main place they come into the house is through a window, hence why I suggested exterior shutters that have a fire blocking material in my "dream house." But, keeping fires off the roof is one more part of the puzzle that does need to be addressed.