How the Prius wastes fuel

[EVmetro]

Originally Posted by brucepick

I certainly will rarely speed up to accommodate them.

This is really helpful information for my presentation of the kinetic ripple. Many of the folks who jumped to defend the Prius rather than try to understand what the kinetic ripple is can't seem to grasp how eco drivers are able to effect the fuel economy of other drivers. Thanks for posting this.

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by EVmetro

It takes an understanding of kinetic energy to really grasp what I have presented, and to understand the limitations of pulse and glide driving. It may be wisest to write it off as something that you do not understand rather than something that is incorrect.

You just told a room full of hypermilers that they don't understand kinetic energy.

It's not that we don't understand that needless speeding and slowing is wasteful. We understand that very well. Most of us have also observed that the normal behaviors of regular drivers are so wasteful that there's nothing another driver can do to "help" them. We don't try, but we do try to behave efficiently ourselves. If that happens to irritate someone who can't think more than three car lengths ahead, it doesn't matter- because that driver can't think more than three car lengths ahead. It it's not me pissing him off, it'll be the car in front of me doing it. So don't blame me for his stupidity, okay?

Meanwhile, I'm using kinetic energy as much as possible. And my understanding of the limits of pulse and glide means I'm not always using it, and in fact use cruise quite often. The lack of cruise with the MT was the main reason (but not the only one) I didn't get a Versa.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Lookup: "...rubberbanding..." driving condition.

I think this is what some people fail to understand. It's one thing to disregard other drivers because of what you have seen some do in the past, but in heavy traffic any kind of pulse and glide is going to cascade into stop and go conditions. You could have a team of likeminded hypermillers just like you and you still will get it.
https://www.newscientist.com/article...or-first-time/
Granted I think the cause of stop and go traffic is rarely a hypermiller doing pulse and glide but I can almost guarantee that if one were to break out into an independant, don't care about anybody but me, pulse and glide, in say Seattle rush hour traffic, you will cause a shockwave behind you that will lead to stop and go in your lane, which will lead to frantic lane changing behind you, which will lead to shockwaves in all 4 lanes and stop and go for miles. You may be saving gas and never even see it but 200 other cars just wasted a lifetime of of your effort big picture planet wise.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by EVmetro

This is really helpful information for my presentation of the kinetic ripple. Many of the folks who jumped to defend the Prius rather than try to understand what the kinetic ripple is can't seem to grasp how eco drivers are able to effect the fuel economy of other drivers. Thanks for posting this.

BUT he doesn't drive a Prius

I know, I know, Prius bashing is just good fun, I've done my share too.

[Ecky]

Who uses pulse and glide in stop and go traffic? You can't glide in gridlock.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Who uses pulse and glide in stop and go traffic? You can't glade in gridlock.

Personally, I slow down deliberately to act as a buffer that reduces the shockwave for those behind.

Stop/ Go traffic is compulsory pulse and glide

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Who uses pulse and glide in stop and go traffic? You can't glide in gridlock.

It's not stop and go or gridlock until the shockwave or ripple is instigated by someone doing something. That is what is being pointed out as how you can actually waste fuel trying to save fuel. Something sets off those ripples. I also agree slowing down and working at reseting a new constant pace can help erase a stop and go backup.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I think this is what some people fail to understand. It's one thing to disregard other drivers because of what you have seen some do in the past, but in heavy traffic any kind of pulse and glide is going to cascade into stop and go conditions. You could have a team of likeminded hypermillers just like you and you still will get it.
https://www.newscientist.com/article...or-first-time/
Granted I think the cause of stop and go traffic is rarely a hypermiller doing pulse and glide but I can almost guarantee that if one were to break out into an independant, don't care about anybody but me, pulse and glide, in say Seattle rush hour traffic, you will cause a shockwave behind you that will lead to stop and go in your lane, which will lead to frantic lane changing behind you, which will lead to shockwaves in all 4 lanes and stop and go for miles. You may be saving gas and never even see it but 200 other cars just wasted a lifetime of of your effort big picture planet wise.

Who does that. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[redpoint5]

Another worthless anecdote; 2 of the fastest drivers I know have extremely poor throttle control. While "steady" cruising, they hammer on the throttle, the transmission downshifts, the car gains 10-15 MPH, and then they completely let off, coasting back down 10-15 MPH.

On one occasion where I was driving with said erratic driver, it began to rain. My friend advised me to turn off cruise so that I don't loose control when the car hydroplanes. I had to tell him 3 times that I had been maintaining speed manually the entire time. He just couldn't believe it was possible to maintain speed without cruise.

Both of these people have never owned a vehicle with a "good" transmission. Guess transmissions aren't built for a lifetime of on/off throttle operation.

I don't know if this ridiculous thread is aimed at slow drivers, or just inattentive drivers. One thing I notice is that slow drivers, while annoying, tend to be attentive. They are generally good at maintaining their slow speed. Those speed demons are the ones causing ripples by constantly changing lanes, altering their speed, and forcing other drivers to react defensively.

[Natalya]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Sorry to go off topic, but it suddenly occurred to me how many other interesting model names a PC keyboard can yield.

Ford Escape.
Starting the trend they took the key in the upper left corner.
Some racing organization claimed the next row of keys.
French estates are often called Break.
Suzuki has the Alt(o) and the Sh(/w)ift. Honda the Del (Sol).

But then. Who will claim Scroll Lock?
Where is the Nissan PageUp? Smart Alt Graphic? Chevy Control? Toyota End?

Honda (Ins)ight
Nissan 300 (ZX)
Nissan (Alt)ima
Chevy S(Print)


Back on topic...

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

Personally, I slow down deliberately to act as a buffer that reduces the shockwave for those behind.

Stop/ Go traffic is compulsory pulse and glide

I heard (lol how much stupid stuff starts with those two words?) that most stop-and-go on the highway is related to the flow on one section of the highway having a different speed from the next section, and the stop-go is the adjustment between the two speeds.

For example, sometimes you might be on a slower part, and then up ahead the average speed is higher, so everyone slams down the accelerator but they end up going too fast and they have to hit the brakes... rinse and repeat for half a mile but eventually they get up to speed. Or, of course, everyone is barreling along and up ahead the speed is is substantially lower (but not stopped!) and everyone collapses into eachother and has to stop as a result, but really the upcoming average speed wasn't 0.

When I'm driving on the highway I'm always following a little far behind so that I can see around the vehicle in front, and so that I have a nice speed cushion so if they make any changes I can start by releasing the gas pedal instead of slamming the brakes. I'm also always looking as far ahead as possible for brake lights so that I can begin my slow deceleration (decelerating slowly is what I mean) well in advance of the slower traffic ahead. And then once I'm there I do what I can to keep the car rolling instead of stop-and-go because, obviously, MPGs, and maybe (wildest dreams here) I can train the driver behind me to not be such a nut and see that stop-and-go could just be slow-coasting.