Looking for help building a Gas Vapor system

[charlo49]

what's really needed is a complete redesign of the IC engine. it's basically a refined steam engine. the weak part is the crank mechanism for converting linear to rotary motion. this is how steam locomotive wheels are driven. a mechanism like this cannot transmit large forces because of the constant reversals of motion. this is why detonation has to be avoided at all costs.

but this must be nonsense, because clearly detonation unleashes forces much higher than conventional combustion. these forces will destroy a conventional crank-operated engine, but will deliver tremendous torque in an engine designed to harness the power of detonation.

enter the Bourke engine. this engine was designed in the 1930s specifically as a detonation engine. it has only two moving parts (the piston assembly and the drive shaft). it has no poppet valves, just using ports in the cylinder walls, has a compression ratio of 50:1, can rev to 20,000 rpm with a straight-line power curve, has a specific hp twice the best formula one engine with half the specific fuel consumption, the exhaust is cool to the touch since all the energy is extracted from the fuel, requires little or no cooling system, achieves complete combustion at low temps so there are no oxides of nitrogen, so no catalytic converter required, can burn any low-octane fuel (kerosene, diesel, vegetable oils), ethanol, methanol, etc.

it's the engine we've all been looking for. so if anybody wants to put up a $100k or so, we'll build a working prototype.

[racprops]

I am VERY up on the Bourke engine, I even have a reprint/photocopy of his somewhat rambling book with nearly all the details on building one with his skipper barrings, scotch yoke dual in line pistons etc.

Like a diesel they need very good strong metals...it covers his 400CI 4 cylinder engine and how it kept breaking transmissions and drive shafts.

He built a number of them, and there has been a number of recreated versions...I for one do not know why no one has followed up and built a bunch of them and perhaps cars to use them.

I have NOT read any reason why they are not being used now a days. My guess is they do not last well, such pressures and power must tear things up fast.

BUT as I do not have millions or billions, IF I did I would simply but a Tesla, I am just trying to build a vapor system to keep the ICE running a little longer until the electric car takes over.

When I started my quest into trying to get high MPG 30 years ago the electric car was a golf cart....

[racprops]

PS https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Bourke+engine&t=ffsb&ia=web

Tons of info.

[racprops]

And lots of crazy claims abd junk here:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Running+a+...ffsb&ia=videos

[racprops]

And yes I know about the Fish carb, and others, and about Tom Ogal etc. All failures and all bad ideas, like Tom heating up his gas TANK to get vapor...

And the old box on the engine heated with the tail pipe etc.

Bombs all.

[tf4624]

Originally Posted by racprops

That is what I am working on...without the flame heating, looking at electric heating at around 800 degrees..must be air tight and controlled system.

I have a design but need tech help with details and building such a system.

vapor system isnt to tough depending how "vapor" you want go. You have remember gas has a lot of stuff that makes it up. 3000 different fluids. each with its own chemical and thermodynamic characteristics. everything from almost propane to almost diesel. Gasoline today, ever since they changed how they make the fuel has additives that inhibit most vaporization techniques, either directly or by leaving residue. You have to get it to the base core of Methane. you also have to get the fuel to burn at detonation speeds if yo want to maximize efficiency after you break down the fuel. Any way this is a very long subject I rather not type out. I think you get the picture.

also i do have a mower running on vapor .. yes the oil is still clean as heck and the original and never has turned black. I can bet you if you take apart the engine it will super clean, almost new looking since there isn't any residue from un burned fuel.

[tf4624]

Originally Posted by racprops

And yes I know about the Fish carb, and others, and about Tom Ogal etc. All failures and all bad ideas, like Tom heating up his gas TANK to get vapor...

And the old box on the engine heated with the tail pipe etc.

Bombs all.

I take it, its your opinion? I say your wrong.. not failures

[tf4624]

Originally Posted by racprops

I have read a lot of things and done a bunch also myself from HHO, to throttle body tricks, to water injection and cold vapor systems, to lean burn on a 2000 Ford, even got a Tank of pure hydrogen to see IF any amount of Hydrogen would improve MPG, and it did NOT.

The only one that worked a little was changing the AFR from 14.7 to 16.5 and that took a 2000 Mercury Grand Marques from 29 MPG to 35 MPG at 65MPH..with a notable loss of power.

So I have seen tons of calms of high MPG using pure gasoline vapor…

Here is one:

Atmospheric pollution from gasoline motor exhaust is
created by unburned hydrocarbons. These pollutants are
largely caused by the fact that gasoline is not totally
vaporized by the conventional carburetor system. In any
carburetor, gasoline is broken down into droplets or
particles and vapor. It is the vapor that explodes and
powers the internal combustion engine.

The droplets pass through the exhaust system as unburned
or partially burned hydrocarbons, i.e. pollution.
Gasoline can be vaporized more completely by the use of
heat and/or a mechanical action. If the light ends (i.e.,
fractions of gasoline that evaporate below 250 degrees
Fahrenheit) are vaporized, there is a corresponding
decrease in exhaust pollution and an increase in the
efficiency of the engine.

The use of heat and/or mechanical action to improve
the amount of gasoline vaporized was documented in The
Scientific American Digest.1 This finding
has been
replicated on modern stationary gasoline engines in the
Houston, Texas laboratories of the Shell Oil Company.2
In the Mills patent, for a device he calls the 'Vapipe',
Mills concludes: "The use of vaporized fuel enables a
gasoline engine to be run on such lean mixtures, even in
excess of 20:1 air to fuel ratio, that the levels of
carbon monoxide and oxides of nitrogen are simultaneously
low, thereby contributing to the abatement of environmental
pollution."3 Is it coincidental that Shell Oil
Company scientist Geoffrey Harrow of Wales, UK in his
patent "Device For Vaporizing Fuel" makes the identical
claim in exactly the same words?4 For further
reference material on the Mills patent, SAE Paper 760564 is
cited.5


The late Ray Covey, who used the Carburetor Enhancer
Method along with the heat exchanger described here,
was also awarded a patent for a vaporizer carburetor
#4,611,567 using exhaust heat to evaporate gasoline.
This vaporizer patent was originally assigned US Patent
Class 123, Subclass 545 A computer search of all
vaporizer patents in this subclass back to 1900 yielded
over five hundred patents! The reader can access all
patents granted after 1976 at www.uspto.gov on the US
Patent Office database, through the Internet. Go to
'Search Patents' Use Covey's Patent number 4,611,567
proceed to 'References Cited', and explore from there.

After 17 years from its publication in the Official
Gazette, a patent falls into the 'public domain',the
inventor loses all property rights over their idea. There
is no longer any economic or legal incentive to defend
the patent. Contacting the inventors of expired patents
would perhaps be very helpful to readers wanting to
improve the design discussed here. The address of an
inventor can be obtained through the US Patent Office.
Construction plans for the Covey patent will be fully
described in a future issue of Tesla.

There are several systems that will work in fuel injected
engines to more completely vaporize the fuel, resulting
in a higher efficiency.

I have a system designed from a couple of other sources, one that claimed to have gotten 100MPG in a 2.2 Litter car using one such vapor system.

I am NOT in any hurry to share the details to everyone, only to a person whom shows he understands what I hope to do AND have the engineering skills and knowledge of gasoline vapors and the safe handling of.

Rays invention only works on distilled gasoline and not today's

[oil pan 4]

Trust me you don't want to use total seal pistol rings on a street driven vehicle.

[tf4624]

Originally Posted by racprops

You getting close, Consider this: Gas burns SO SLOWLY that they have to start it burning some 30 degrees (or More) BEFORE top dead center...and as even the finest droplets are NOT vapor but converting TO vapor only 30% is able to produce the power stroke, the rest do burn but make no power as they are still burning though the rest of the rotation of the crank and the final piston moving though bottom dead center and back up in the exhaust stroke and still are burning on its way out of the exhaust valve and out the exhaust manifold and tail pipe, which is IF you were running straight pipe a like a dragster you see flames.

The power stroke is some 10 degrees after top dead center and down to about 70/80 degrees to bottom dead center, after bottom dead center that burning fuel is a waste of fuel as it can make no power..do no work.

IF you are running vapor you then need timing of ZERO DEGREES or a couple of degrees AFTER top dead center because vapor explodes so nearly 100% can produce the power stroke and THAT means all of the 20 to30% of the fuel makes more power with no waste and give more power an more MPG.

It is used up during just the few degrees of crank turning after top dead center and can be all gone before bottom dead center, and there is no (or very little) waste of fuel.

At least that is the theory... as I under stand it.

Knocking is when fuel burns or explodes BEFORE top dead center...

correction:

when the piston is at 12 past Top dead center it is moving faster than the speed of the burning fuel typically engines have 3 to 7 milliseconds when a fuel explosion will actually be pushing on the piston. Issue is it the time it takes for the liquid gas to turn into vapor mix with oxygen and then burn in a secondary explosion. the time can exceed 50 milliseconds. in most vehicles the exhaust valves open in about 7 milliseconds. this means you'd be burning up your exhaust valves. the combustion must be absolutely stopped by 25 past Top dead center to prevent valves from burning