Newbie questions

[Christ]

Originally Posted by El Duende

I had to look up "adiabatic" in the dictionary. No match found. I see what you mean by "soaking" the metal by way of the intake charge. Don't worry about losing precious heat with cooler air because the combustion chamber will inevitably heat up. Pressure in the engine bay will keep hot air around the motor, too. You're telling me that an already warm engine will be a more ideal environment for combustion than a cooler one. Sucks for my MPGs, it's cold outside! That explains why this demographic has such a high demand for engine block heaters. I thought it was compression or spark plug location that affected thermal-effeciency. (The term you clarified, but didn't specify.) Swapping in a CAI/SRI also reduces mechanical effort along with more HP. There's no use in keeping the intake system hot. The coolant is in charge of keeping the head at the temperature it needs to be, not the outside air.

Not trying to be a smart-ass, but I'd like to see a link to one of those studies.

I think I spelled it incorrectly - here's an explanation:

define:adiabatic - Google Search

I used the term somewhat incorrectly - I should have said that a perfectly efficient engine is adiabatic. You'll see why once you read the definitions listed.

I should probably start saving those links as I come across them. Someone here will provide one at some point, I'm sure.

[El Duende]

Originally Posted by Christ

I think I spelled it incorrectly - here's an explanation:

define:adiabatic - Google Search

I used the term somewhat incorrectly - I should have said that a perfectly efficient engine is adiabatic. You'll see why once you read the definitions listed.

I should probably start saving those links as I come across them. Someone here will provide one at some point, I'm sure.

Good word choice.

That's cool dude, don't sweat it. They don't have spell check on these message boxes.

No links? You must be expecting me to bash you for it, but like I said, don't worry about it. I'm gonna look into that WAI thread and see for myself.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by El Duende

Oh it doesn't happen? Well, I'm not referring to the slowing of exhaust flow, I'm talking about recirculation of spent gasses. Wait... So that means that backpressure does exist!

Hope I'm not truly burdening your mind, because you're not burdening mine.

So you're talking about EGR flow? (Rhetoric.)

What you're suggesting is that the exhaust is drawn back into the cylinder after having exited, which isn't true. What actually happens is that as the exhaust exits the engine, pressure in the exhaust channel builds as the flow slows, due to expansion and cooling, and this prevents the scavenging effect that you feel is so necessary.

Of course, I'm sure it never occurred to you that some automakers have actually designed engines with this in mind, because it's more efficient to just leave some of the exhaust gasses in the cylinder than to recirculate them via EGR flow... Of course, if there is exhaust gas left in the cylinder, that would reduce the dynamic displacement of the engine, meaning that less fresh air is drawn in, thus less fuel is necessary to maintain the same AFR, and a higher throttle angle must be used to generate the necessary amount of power to maintain the vehicle's speed, reducing pumping losses.

Do you have any links or data which backs up your claims?

I wasn't expecting flame-age for not having links readily available, but I really should start keeping a file of them. I often give information that could be covered by them, but can't provide the link for a point of reference. It's a bad practice that I need to break.

[Christ]

Believe it or not, a CAI can have a cooling effect on the engine.

Imagine what happens when you drink cold water. The first process for you to metabolize the water (as if there were such a thing) is for your body to bring that water up to temp. That takes energy, does it not? Some of that energy could have been used as propulsion, rather than wasted as heat in order to bring the air up to temp for combustion.

That's about the easiest way I could explain it.

It is the thermostat's job to open and close to maintain a specific temperature range within the engine, but the coolant's job is to extract heat, not provide or insulate it. The air temp is important in this respect, because colder air will also pull heat away, and since combustion provides heat to the engine, part of the heat that would normally be given to the combustion chamber is then given to the air.

[El Duende]

Originally Posted by Christ

So you're talking about EGR flow? (Rhetoric.)

What you're suggesting is that the exhaust is drawn back into the cylinder after having exited, which isn't true. What actually happens is that as the exhaust exits the engine, pressure in the exhaust channel builds as the flow slows, due to expansion and cooling, and this prevents the scavenging effect that you feel is so necessary.

Of course, I'm sure it never occurred to you that some automakers have actually designed engines with this in mind, because it's more efficient to just leave some of the exhaust gasses in the cylinder than to recirculate them via EGR flow... Of course, if there is exhaust gas left in the cylinder, that would reduce the dynamic displacement of the engine, meaning that less fresh air is drawn in, thus less fuel is necessary to maintain the same AFR, and a higher throttle angle must be used to generate the necessary amount of power to maintain the vehicle's speed, reducing pumping losses.

Do you have any links or data which backs up your claims?

You did not just bag on my rhetoric... Nobody disses my rhetoric.

My statement was taken out of context, by yours truly.

And then you dare say that "it would never occur to me" that "some," but not "all" automakers (Wonder who those are.) ensure that gasses don't recirculate into the cylinder. That's not the cause of the problem. It hasn't occured to you that I was, in fact, placing the blame on a lousy exhaust pipe design. At no point did I mention the EGR.

I do, as a matter of fact. Because I don't wanna go link hunting at this hour, I'll give you the publication "How to Build Nissan Sport Compacts" by Sarah Foster as a source of my info.

[El Duende]

Originally Posted by Christ

Believe it or not, a CAI can have a cooling effect on the engine.

Imagine what happens when you drink cold water. The first process for you to metabolize the water (as if there were such a thing) is for your body to bring that water up to temp. That takes energy, does it not? Some of that energy could have been used as propulsion, rather than wasted as heat in order to bring the air up to temp for combustion.

That's about the easiest way I could explain it.

It is the thermostat's job to open and close to maintain a specific temperature range within the engine, but the coolant's job is to extract heat, not provide or insulate it. The air temp is important in this respect, because colder air will also pull heat away, and since combustion provides heat to the engine, part of the heat that would normally be given to the combustion chamber is then given to the air.

Uh-huh and a warmer intake charge "can have" a warming-effect.

You're not gonna burn many calories by drinking cold water. Energy in the muscles are in the form of ATP, so losing a couple of calories isn't taking anything away from what you have and not all of what you just consumed will be utilized either. Using your analogy to support my claim, drinking a lot of hot water will also make the body work to regulate its internal temperature. That too, takes calories, but you're losing electrolytes in the process of it. (Opening of the pores to relieve the body of excess heat) A CAI/SRI reduces the mechanical effort it takes for the engine to ingest air and has the benefit of increasing HP. Running your car at summer temperatures will have a negative effect on performance. Gasoline at too hot of a temperature will evaporate, which I haven't heard you mention. So if you heat the air/fuel mix too much, you end up with less energy from the loss of matter. (Gasoline) That's not the most fuel-efficient way to go. I'd rather go with a CAI/SRI achieve the goal of better MPGs and getting more HP along the way than running my engine too hot, inevitably engaging the cooling fans and once again, putting more a strain on the engine. Not to mention the possiblity of evaporating those precious mists of fuel the injectors spray out.

It may not specifically work to heat the engine, but it's dependant on it. And at the temperature that the cooling system operates, heat will be transferred and distributed throughout its pathways, maintaining a consistent temperature. Conversely, if heat is drawn away from the engine and to the coolant, so that too creates a cooling effect which wasn't accounted for in your response.

[Domman56]

Anyone mind if i take a swing at this one since I'm the performance guy and this is the exact type of driving i was sayin my mods help for?

[El Duende]

Originally Posted by Domman56

Anyone mind if i take a swing at this one since I'm the performance guy and this is the exact type of driving i was sayin my mods help for?

By all means, take the stage. -_-

(If I may say so myself...)

[Domman56]

OK FIIIRST OF all by reading the fact that your OLD car used to lift at about 100 you are NO stranger to speed.
Also you're young and kinda stupid (daring if you prefer)
Don't worry I am too
I'm just gonna give you the recepie that i give all of my friends ... They drive pretty much like you

Firstly seafoam the car and change the oil. this'll run you about 30 bucks get some 5w 30 preferably

Second Stop running that thing on cheap gas You're a teen so i know you are.. Run it on some shell V power to clean out that top end and make it burn the way it should (higher octane in cheap motorss like that often helps quite a bit with power. 20 cents per gallon pays itself off

Third K&N OR Spectre Cone filter Some will say you lose power from this but You know it isn't true You can HEAR the extra power and FEEL that extra snappiness, well guess what that's a lie It MAY help you with fuel economy (because it has a similar effect to the WAI) however the power you FEEL is actually just the car responding to the throttle snap much quicker Heat soak and pullling warm air in will decrease power
So what i'd ACTUALLY suggest doing go to autoanything.com.. that's where i get em and buy yourself a K&N air filter then delete your intake resonator if you have one
You'll still get the sound but it should be a whole lot more affective with power actually Around $40

Forth you can't stand how it sounds Go to ebay find yourself a flowsound 2 chamber muffler KEEP YOUR RESONATOR ON or that will be raspy as hell like a fart-canned civic. may not help with gas buuuuut you wont have to drive as fast to hear the sound of the motor. $40

Inflate your tires to the max pressure or as near as you dare to go to it, tirre manufacturers actually underrate their tires just for saftey reasons. This'll give you less rolling resistance and drag at high speed Free

and lastly TAKE OUT WEIGHT ditch unnessecary stuff if you dont drive 4 people around ditch the back seat > Your spare tire and spare tire jack can be removed and get a can of fix a flat that should cover you if you get one. also any extra crap that reeeeeally doesn't need to be in your car Remove it Free

Oh and lastly delete the spoiler if you have one and wash the car At the super high speeds youre traveling this may actually help Free

For most people on this forum these mods are useless but for you i think they may actually turn out great. Lemme know the results

[ChillyBear]

Originally Posted by Domman56

OK FIIIRST OF all by reading the fact that your OLD car used to lift at about 100 you are NO stranger to speed.
Also you're young and kinda stupid (daring if you prefer)
Don't worry I am too
I'm just gonna give you the recepie that i give all of my friends ... They drive pretty much like you

Firstly seafoam the car and change the oil. this'll run you about 30 bucks get some 5w 30 preferably

Second Stop running that thing on cheap gas You're a teen so i know you are.. Run it on some shell V power to clean out that top end and make it burn the way it should (higher octane in cheap motorss like that often helps quite a bit with power. 20 cents per gallon pays itself off

Third K&N OR Spectre Cone filter Some will say you lose power from this but You know it isn't true You can HEAR the extra power and FEEL that extra snappiness, well guess what that's a lie It MAY help you with fuel economy (because it has a similar effect to the WAI) however the power you FEEL is actually just the car responding to the throttle snap much quicker Heat soak and pullling warm air in will decrease power
So what i'd ACTUALLY suggest doing go to autoanything.com.. that's where i get em and buy yourself a K&N air filter then delete your intake resonator if you have one
You'll still get the sound but it should be a whole lot more affective with power actually Around $40

Forth you can't stand how it sounds Go to ebay find yourself a flowsound 2 chamber muffler KEEP YOUR RESONATOR ON or that will be raspy as hell like a fart-canned civic. may not help with gas buuuuut you wont have to drive as fast to hear the sound of the motor. $40

Inflate your tires to the max pressure or as near as you dare to go to it, tirre manufacturers actually underrate their tires just for saftey reasons. This'll give you less rolling resistance and drag at high speed Free

and lastly TAKE OUT WEIGHT ditch unnessecary stuff if you dont drive 4 people around ditch the back seat > Your spare tire and spare tire jack can be removed and get a can of fix a flat that should cover you if you get one. also any extra crap that reeeeeally doesn't need to be in your car Remove it Free

Oh and lastly delete the spoiler if you have one and wash the car At the super high speeds youre traveling this may actually help Free

For most people on this forum these mods are useless but for you i think they may actually turn out great. Lemme know the results

Ok mr stereo type lol. FWI, I sea foamed the oil ad gas the first week I had it and left the oil in for 300 miles (never going above 3k rpms) and then changed to royal purple 10w-30. My tires are brand new and I had the car aligned, and I wash my car AT LEAST 2 times a week, And I wash the undercarriage too ( I would spend $20 a week keeping my old truck clean). I havent run any of my 8 past cars on less than 93 octane. And there is no clutter in my car lol. And yes im 18 years old. My intro thread shows my history of cars and why I ended up here.

On the subject of the CAI, I may just go to a better filter and keep the stock intake because of that annoying droning sound coming from a stock engine with a CAI.