Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico - Historic Disaster

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Not really. Think about what having to pay for all the damages is doing to BP's bottom line.

The problem is not profit-seeking, but short-term profit seeking.

And besides, it wasn't THEIR money. The worst that could happen if things went bad is that they'd get fired.

I would agree that it has more to do with no real liability imposed on the ruling class, remember though think about the short and long term positive profit effects this risky behavior would have gained and generally no one would have been the wiser should it have worked. If it had worked BPs execs would have a notch in their belt.

In reality It has little to do with just short term profit, it has more to do with risking things that are not theirs to be risking, a brazen disregard for the environment and all mankind.

I figure if they want to play with powers only god should have they should have a bit more personal responsibility once it goes wrong.

Imagine what the penalty would be if a terrorist had blown the well as opposed to stupidity from management?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Imagine what the penalty would be if a terrorist had blown the well as opposed to stupidity from management?

...there's a difference?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

I would agree that it has more to do with no real liability imposed on the ruling class...

There's your problem right there - autoproctology :-) Ain't no "ruling class" involved, just people.

[pgmomni]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...there's a difference?

While the end result is the same no matter who/what/how it happened,

the "fact" it happened due to corp greed as opposed to direct anti-USA terrorist aggression totally affects the reaction and consequences of the disaster. "Its was a accident", probally avoidable with proper and ethically corp behavior on BP's part. So the usual, capitalist methods and procedures have been "utilized" to "fix it". Costs being a major factor.
NOW, if it had been a anti-American terrorist attack the current administration would have had the political backing OR political advantage to use ALL available resources to "fix it".
Being born and raised in the North East I am naive when it comes to drilling.
But totally appaled by the lack of distaster planning in place pre-disaster and post disaster.
Didn't the Gulf state learn anything from Katrina? You can't depend on the Fed's to get you out of disaster. DIY is the order of the day. If you want the Revenue, jobs and taxes of off shore drilling, well you better spend some of those Rev's on a dam good disaster recover plan/infastructure because the Fed's are #@@$%@#$% useless!

Libertarian Pete

[clanny]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

remember though think about the short and long term positive profit effects this risky behavior would have gained and generally no one would have been the wiser should it have worked.

You see, this is the type of thing that I was talking about. What risky behaviour? Tell me exactly what risk you'd rather they didn't take. There's absolutely been zero information released regarding failure mode analysis and there won't be until they've recovered the rig and BOP for a forensic analysis. And quite rightly so. Anything up until that point is purely speculation and mud slinging by various people/organisations with alternative agendas.

Originally Posted by pgmomni

the "fact" it happened due to corp greed as opposed to direct anti-USA terrorist aggression totally affects the reaction and consequences of the disaster. "Its was a accident", probally avoidable with proper and ethically corp behavior on BP's part. So the usual, capitalist methods and procedures have been "utilized" to "fix it". Costs being a major factor.
NOW, if it had been a anti-American terrorist attack the current administration would have had the political backing OR political advantage to use ALL available resources to "fix it".

Again. There are no facts available as yet. So your assertion that it was down to corporate greed is pure speculation. It'll all come out in the wash and there won't be any individual single failing. It'll be a dozen or more separate failings that all together add up to this. That's always the way. It was the same with Piper Alpha, Flixborough etc etc. Trust me, I've read enough of this sort of thing.

As for the perception (reading between the lines in some of the posts here) that bp puts profit today/this month/this year ahead of any long term company gain is complete nonsense. They're drilling these wells to operate them for 20+ years. One disaster like this will wipe all the profits from this well for it's lifetime. Why take the slightest chance on that for the sake of a few $$ spent today? It's madness and bg oil doesn't make decisions like that.

The US govt and a dozen other organisations will currently be picking their way through all the risk assessments, safety case files, previous industry disaster reports etc etc etc to see what went wrong, why and how did we/they miss it. It will not be as simple as bp decided to x/t/z to save $100 today.

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by clanny

As for the perception (reading between the lines in some of the posts here) that bp puts profit today/this month/this year ahead of any long term company gain is complete nonsense. They're drilling these wells to operate them for 20+ years. One disaster like this will wipe all the profits from this well for it's lifetime. Why take the slightest chance on that for the sake of a few $$ spent today? It's madness and bg oil doesn't make decisions like that.

Many, if not most, publicly traded companies in America operate quarter-to-quarter. So many investors are moving their money around willy-nilly, and looking for a rise in share price instead of a big dividend. Boards of Directors are giving the shareholders what they want, and a sudden fall in the share price can be the end of a CEO's tenure.

I hope that heavy industry is somewhat above this trend due to the huge long-term investments required. If investors would park their money in one spot for a decade and pressure management to make lots of money and pay big dividends, we'd have much healthier corporations as a result. Probably fewer random mergers and acquisitions as well.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by clanny

As for the perception (reading between the lines in some of the posts here) that bp puts profit today/this month/this year ahead of any long term company gain is complete nonsense. They're drilling these wells to operate them for 20+ years. One disaster like this will wipe all the profits from this well for it's lifetime. Why take the slightest chance on that for the sake of a few $$ spent today? It's madness and bg oil doesn't make decisions like that.

But manifestly, they DO make decisions like that. Got the evidence right there in the Gulf of Mexico.

I think part of your problem is that you're thinking that BP the company makes decisions. In reality, the decisions are made by thousands of individuals all along the management chain. So for instance the boss of a drill rig might decide to use water instead of drilling mud while capping a test well, because it's cheaper & quicker so (if it works) he brings the project in on schedule & under budget, and maybe gets bonus and promotion prospects.

So that manager's risk/reward for that decision is way out of sync with the company's potential losses. He's not going to have to pay any of the cost if things go wrong.

[clanny]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But manifestly, they DO make decisions like that. Got the evidence right there in the Gulf of Mexico.

Got the evidence of what? There's evidence of an integrity failure but nothing showing that the company cut corners to save money. Again, just because the press says so, doesn't make it true.

[NeilBlanchard]

Something caused the failure, and at this point it doesn't really matter what it was. It only matters that it did fail, and that "the system" failed to keep it from happening.

The damage is being done, and we do not understand the full extent of the damage. We are probably making it much worse by putting in the dispersants.

Much of the Gulf of Mexico is going to a dead zone. A smaller portion already was, for years, and as a result, much of the land along the coast will also be dead. The ocean is incredibly important to all of us, and we are soiling it.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by clanny

Got the evidence of what? There's evidence of an integrity failure but nothing showing that the company cut corners to save money. Again, just because the press says so, doesn't make it true.

so petitioning for no backup rig wasn't to save money?

How much did they spend on testing/inspecting the "fail safes"?