Paul & Sabrina's cheap DIY 144v motor controller

[wakinyantanka]

Hi Guys,
Well I've stumbled across a Zilla hv 2k and will not be needing my control board for my build. I actually have most of the power section completed as well. So if anybody wants an unused 1000 amp board let me know. If you remember my build was going to be able to handle 2000 amps because I was using the sot227 style mosfets that are rated for a lot more amperage.
Go here for the data sheet. PartDetail
Paul also developed a specific driver board for my build and I still have the designs.

[jpirkola]

Originally Posted by wakinyantanka

Hi Guys,
Well I've stumbled across a Zilla hv 2k and will not be needing my control board for my build. I actually have most of the power section completed as well. So if anybody wants an unused 1000 amp board let me know. If you remember my build was going to be able to handle 2000 amps because I was using the sot227 style mosfets that are rated for a lot more amperage.
Go here for the data sheet. PartDetail
Paul also developed a specific driver board for my build and I still have the designs.

Hope you didn't break anything stumbling over that Zilla.

Talk to me!

More info so I can show it to my electronics guy

Cost including shipping.

We can probably deal

Can't PM you yet, I need a few more posts

Home E mail is
Michele@massnet1.net

Jim

[Greg Fordyce]

Originally Posted by jpirkola

Paul and everyone.

It's been a while since I posted, it's the old can't breath in high humidity and temperature thing. A bit better now. We built the controller from the kit we bought from you and it works a treat.

I originally was going to put it on my EV conversion international Cub Cadet garden tractor. That idea got slightly side tracked.

The controller now resides (temporarly) on top of the scratch built (Called an ultralight modified) 1/4 scale pulling tractor with a 160 volt battery of 150 Headway cells (50S 3P) I'll attach a couple of photos. The tractor has a 13 inch GE motor and needs more amps.

Now on to the questions, right now the controller is limited to 511 amps. we have heard that people have safely run these controllers at up to 700 amps with a change in the softwear on the chip. Have you heard of this being done. If so could you put me in touch with the person(s) who have done this.

I have been out of touch because of health ptoblems, but I did hear that you were either in design phase or production for a High amp controller. What is the status? Will it be available in a kit form?

I'll be posting a you tube of the first complete run of the Big 13. If you watch the end you will see that it just ran out of amps. We have the RTD explorer log of the run if your interested.

Jim

Hi Jim, looking at your tractor I suddenly had a thought about your Headway cells. I am going to assume you are using the 16ah 40160. I found some specs for them on the web.

Headway LifePo4 40160S 16AH

Nominal Capacity: 16AH
Nominal Voltage: 3.2V
Max Charge Voltage: 3.65V
Cut Off Discharge Voltage: 2.0V
Charging Method: CC/CV
Max Charge Current (Continuous): 5C (80A)
Max Discharge Current (Continuous): 10C (160A)
Cycle Life: 2000 Cycles 1C 80% DOD

So you have 3 cells in parallel for 48ah which at 10C is 480 amps. At 500 amps you are already over the max discharge current. Also when you parallel cells you can't be certain that all cells will share the current equally so you need to derate the max discharge current by some value (I am not sure by how much though). Another thing to notice is that cycle life is stated for 2000 cycles at 1C. I will be interested to see how the headways hold up to that abuse. But maybe since you are using them for racing (ie, only intermittently) and not daily driving they will be fine. I was talking to someone recently who had tried running Thunderskys at around 5C and was getting cell failures in as little as 200 miles. Please let us know how your cells hold up to the abuse. The only other Headway pack I know of being used in a car is Damien's aka Jack Bauer. This is also a relatively small pack at 48S4P if I remember correctly. How's your pack doing in your bmw Jack? It will be interesting to see how well these small packs hold up in daily use.

Greg

[jpirkola]

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

Hi Jim, looking at your tractor I suddenly had a thought about your Headway cells. I am going to assume you are using the 16ah 40160. I found some specs for them on the web.

Greg,

Thanks for taking the time to do the research.

We are using the 38120 8 ah cells

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

So you have 3 cells in parallel for 48ah which at 10C is 480 amps. At 500 amps you are already over the max discharge current. Also when you parallel cells you can't be certain that all cells will share the current equally so you need to derate the max discharge current by some value (I am not sure by how much though).

The 38120 cells with their 25 C rating, will give an overall output of 600 amps from the 50S/30P configuration for (by our actual testing) up to 1 minute. We also did our best to match the parallel sets for internal resistance

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

Another thing to notice is that cycle life is stated for 2000 cycles at 1C. I will be interested to see how the headways hold up to that abuse. But maybe since you are using them for racing (ie, only intermittently) and not daily driving they will be fine. I was talking to someone recently who had tried running Thunderskys at around 5C and was getting cell failures in as little as 200 miles. Please let us know how your cells hold up to the abuse.

We took the derating of the cycle life into consdideration when we chose to go with lithium. We figured on only 10% of the rated life would be 200 cycles. Since we generally only run 10 to 15 pulls per year we should get a few years of use from the pack.

Due to other initial problems, we haven't run the pack enough to get any real feel for life or performance yet.

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

The only other Headway pack I know of being used in a car is Damien's aka Jack Bauer. This is also a relatively small pack at 48S4P if I remember correctly. How's your pack doing in your bmw Jack? It will be interesting to see how well these small packs hold up in daily use.

Greg

We've been watching Damian's results, so far he seems pleased with the performance.

Jim

[wakinyantanka]

Originally Posted by jpirkola

Hope you didn't break anything stumbling over that Zilla.

Talk to me!

More info so I can show it to my electronics guy

Cost including shipping.

We can probably deal

Can't PM you yet, I need a few more posts

Home E mail is
Michele@massnet1.net

Jim

Hi Jim,
Stubbed a toe, but it healed pretty quickly. I'll shoot you an email with the details. It would help if you can view my cad files on the project. If you don't have a cad program you can get a basic free one at cadstd. Google it. I'll convert my files over and email them to you. I'll get some pics of what is completed to you as well.

[MPaulHolmes]

Who is it that's running his controller at like 600amp? He's from Australia. Not squiggles.... Um... Ianbartie?

[Greg Fordyce]

Originally Posted by jpirkola

Greg,

Thanks for taking the time to do the research.

We are using the 38120 8 ah cells



The 38120 cells with their 25 C rating, will give an overall output of 600 amps from the 50S/30P configuration for (by our actual testing) up to 1 minute. We also did our best to match the parallel sets for internal resistance



We took the derating of the cycle life into consdideration when we chose to go with lithium. We figured on only 10% of the rated life would be 200 cycles. Since we generally only run 10 to 15 pulls per year we should get a few years of use from the pack.

Due to other initial problems, we haven't run the pack enough to get any real feel for life or performance yet.



We've been watching Damian's results, so far he seems pleased with the performance.

Jim

Sounds like you have done your homework. I looked up a spec sheet for 38120P cells and it listed 20C max discharge and 15C max. cont. discharge, but the chinese are famous for changing spec sheets and if you have actually tested the at 25C that's great. Do you have a website for the tractor? I would like to keep an eye on your progress.

Greg

[jpirkola]

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

Sounds like you have done your homework. I looked up a spec sheet for 38120P cells and it listed 20C max discharge and 15C max. cont. discharge, but the chinese are famous for changing spec sheets

You noticed that too. You can go to different sites and get different information on the same product. I wonder if those people think we don't see that.

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

if you have actually tested the at 25C that's great.

We were quite supprised at what they would put out. There were some quality issues, but all in all they were the best available at the time we bought. Now there are pouch cells that are superior and it looks like some of the R/C small packs are a good way to get lots of power for a short time.

Originally Posted by Greg Fordyce

Do you have a website for the tractor? I would like to keep an eye on your progress.

Greg

We haven't set up a web site yet for the electric pulling trators. Might be a good idea though. They are simple to create and actually are not much different then an EV conversion for lawn work.

Might get more people interested.

I'm going to post a few You Tube Videos next week, I'll let you know when I get them up.

Jim

[Greg Fordyce]

Originally Posted by jpirkola

Now there are pouch cells that are superior and it looks like some of the R/C small packs are a good way to get lots of power for a short time.

You might be interested in this; A123 20ah Lithium Install - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

I have been working with Peter, who has done this insight conversion, on an open source bms. I haven't been following his progress with the A123 pouch cells but as far as I know it has been going well. Apparently the 20ah cells can deliver 600 amps to empty!

Greg.

P.S. apologies to the moderators for drifting off topic.

[jackbauer]

My pack has been behaving fine. I did have some problems with the bmw600hs battery monitor but that's an instrumentation issue. As far as i understand the S series (energy) headways they are 5C continuous and 10C burst (10 sec). I rarely run over 400amps for a few seconds on accelerations. Cruising is at 100amps or less. About 1.5C.The advantage of the compound motor being that I can increase shunt current to increase torque as opposed to needing increased armature current.

To get a bit more back on topic , the liquid cooled controller is working great. Temp barely raises above ambient.The main problem now being that I seem to be collecting dead bugs in the radiator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLBBw7Jqs4