Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[niky]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I didn't forget it, but anyway there are different perspectives. Uruguay had been more welcoming for small European cars even when the Philippines were still supplied mostly American cars, before Toyota started flooding the world with its econoboxes.

We haven't been an American car market for decades. The Japanese have held sway since the late 70's, when VW's Beetle started losing ground to more sophisticated Asian models. The last time the Americans had any prominent presence (with American-specific rather than European or Asian models) was in the 60's.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Just to remind the 3rd-world Yaris is not the same as the Euro/Jap/USDM one, and I'm sure it might reflect in the price difference too.

Yes, the 3rd-world Yaris is cheaper. Which makes the price difference bigger and the lack of quality difference even harder to justify.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Sure the buyer of a Prius C is not the same of the Yaris available in "emerging" markets, even though it might be closer to the Yaris buyer in the US, Europe or Japan. But anyway, in such a small car as the Yaris and the Prius C, hybrids seem to be taking over some market share which otherwise would belong to Diesels which are fading away on entry-level cars in Europe.

In Europe, yes. In emerging markets, I don't think so. The price difference is still too great. Diesels also have the same problem in Asia as in Europe, though this differs per country, and can be affected by how well-aligned local regulations are to stricter Euro regulations.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

That's why I considered a Yaris hybrid to make sense in case the Prius C gets phased out, unless some buyers are looking for bragging rights as some regular Prius owners are pointed out to do.

I doubt it. Do you have it there? We don't get it (we get the C), but from what I can find online, the price difference between the Yaris Hybrid and the regular one is something like a 50% premium. Which is huge for budget buyers.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

Nowadays with start-stop and regenerative braking becoming widespread in normal cars too, the main advantage of a full-hybrid on heavy city traffic decreases, that's somewhat predictable. But the buyers of those are not the same as a Prius C buyer, just like you couldn't expect a Smart ForTwo cater to the same folks looking for a Piaggio MP3

Let's see when it becomes common on subcompacts like the Yaris and Fit.

But these are the cars the Prius has to compete against in the showrooms.

Also, the MP3 rocks. Yamaha has just released their own version, actually... called the TriCity. Interesting concept.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I remember when the Subaru Vivio and some version of the Daihatsu Mira were available in Brazil in the '90s. Even though the Vivio retained the same engine used in Japan, the Mira resorted to a 0.8L one for export markets. But anyway, microvans such as the Suzuki Carry and the Daihatsu HiJet have a broader international appeal, and nowadays DFSK is exporting some of their Suzuki-based microvans even to some European countries, not to mention the Piaggio Porter which is basically a facelifted older Daihatsu HiJet with a bigger engine.

Vans work (I love the Carry!) because inner city delivery doesn't require much more. But buyers of cars are typically fickle and irrational. As people start making more money, they want more car. Which is why the Tata Nano tanked so spectacularly, despite the Nano-based Ace Zip being a sales success.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

I see those high-end kei cars as a niche product just like the Smart ForTwo, but I believe they're not so unsuitable to other markets as they might seem at a first glance.

I'd love to have them, but given how badly the ForTwo fared here, I'm not hopeful.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by niky

The last time the Americans had any prominent presence (with American-specific rather than European or Asian models) was in the 60's.

Uruguay had been a strong market for European models by then, and even before. Since most of the corned beef consumed in England at a certain time was imported from Uruguay, it was no surprise that models such as the Ford Anglia became widespread there, presumably shipped on the same vessels

Do you have it there? We don't get it (we get the C), but from what I can find online, the price difference between the Yaris Hybrid and the regular one is something like a 50% premium. Which is huge for budget buyers.

The only times I saw a Prius C, it had Uruguayan plates. It's not available here in Brazil, but anyway, the regular Prius is available at a quite competitive cost here.

Vans work (I love the Carry!) because inner city delivery doesn't require much more.

I remember seeing a lot of the Asia Motors Towner being used as private vehicles, and recently I saw a Carry from the '90s but was unable to take some pictures. Considering the interior volume they provide proportionally to their footprint, plus their maneuvering in tight spaces such as parking lots of some apartment complexes, there could still be some reasonable market perspectives for them here. It's either this or resorting to a Honda CG converted into a tricycle, which is quite weak for occasional highway traffic while a kei microvan might fare better as an all-around workhorse (or even as a family commuter).

But buyers of cars are typically fickle and irrational. As people start making more money, they want more car. Which is why the Tata Nano tanked so spectacularly, despite the Nano-based Ace Zip being a sales success.

I must confess I'd rather get an autorickshaw and tune it by myself instead of a Tata Nano. Well, if we would be looking at some cool factor, the autorickshaw might be perceived as "exotic" in a more developed market and get exemptions granted from crashworthiness regulations, while the Nano is simply seen as a penalty box.

I'd love to have them, but given how badly the ForTwo fared here, I'm not hopeful.

I still see a ForTwo once in a while, but in the end it's too compromised and expensive considering its seating and nearly negligible luggage capacities.

[Xist]

I did not see this mentioned anywhere. Versa sales are down and it looks like they are discontinuing the Note in April, but continuing the sedan--for now: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/01/...usaolp00000618

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Xist

I did not see this mentioned anywhere. Versa sales are down and it looks like they are discontinuing the Note in April, but continuing the sedan--for now: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/01/...usaolp00000618

It is sad that they are discontinuing the hatch instead of the sedan. It fits more passenger and cargo volume into the same wheelbase.

I've had a Nissan Versa quite a few times as a rental in Mexico. It is a pretty good car for $$15,000.

[MetroMPG]

Good catch, Xist - I hadn't seen that news about the Versa Note.

JSH: apparently the sedan sells better in the U.S. than the hatchback. Roughly 60/40, if I recall (last time I checked was several years ago). Could have something to do with the fact that the starting price for the sedan is several thousand dollars less than the Note (though the cheap sedan has a manual, where the U.S. Note only came with a CVT).

[JSH]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

JSH: apparently the sedan sells better in the U.S. than the hatchback. Roughly 60/40, if I recall (last time I checked was several years ago). Could have something to do with the fact that the starting price for the sedan is several thousand dollars less than the Note (though the cheap sedan has a manual, where the U.S. Note only came with a CVT).

Without a doubt, sedans sell better than hatchbacks in the USA. (Unless you lift the hatchback and call it a CUV ) I just like hatchbacks and wagons so I'm sad anytime one is discontinued.

The cheap Versa Sedan is a single spec without any options offered. Nissan create the spec so they could say they offered the cheapest new car in the USA. If you move up one level to the car most people will buy, the difference is much less. ($500 to $1000)

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by JSH

Without a doubt, sedans sell better than hatchbacks in the USA. (Unless you lift the hatchback and call it a CUV )

Quoted so people could get a second laugh.

The Yaris and Versa hatches deserved to die. Or rather, Toyota and Nissan needed to stop pretending to sell cars.

Back when I was looking, the only way to get a Versa hatch with a good transmission (manual) was to do without any other good features: I insist on being able to pick my gear ratio, but I'm perfectly happy to let the car operate my windows and locks. The only way to get a Yaris hatch with a manual was to do without a decent number of doors. I've got 2 kids and a dog, for efsake.

Good riddance, I say.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

Quoted so people could get a second laugh.

The Yaris and Versa hatches deserved to die. Or rather, Toyota and Nissan needed to stop pretending to sell cars.

Back when I was looking, the only way to get a Versa hatch with a good transmission (manual) was to do without any other good features: I insist on being able to pick my gear ratio, but I'm perfectly happy to let the car operate my windows and locks. The only way to get a Yaris hatch with a manual was to do without a decent number of doors. I've got 2 kids and a dog, for efsake.

Good riddance, I say.

I suspect by the time we go through another model cycle (5-7 years) all manuals will be gone in the USA.

[freebeard]

Ultimately, single-speed electrics with limited slip in software.

[MetroMPG]

It wasn't in the econobox category, but the Cruze came in both hatch & sedan form in the latest generation, and had some surprising high-efficiency models through the years.


The last one was built this week in Lordstown, OH:
'It's gut-wrenching': Last car rolls off assembly line at GM plant in Lordstown, Ohio