some honda autos get better mileage than manuals?

[tjts1]

Most modern autos beat manuals for FE these days.

[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

Something I've always wondered about is why couldn't a manual clutch be fitted to an automatic transmission? You'd have to use the clutch as in a manual car, but the shifts would be automatic and you could take advantage of the better ratios. What energy losses are there in the auto other than having to pump the fluid?

Actually, you want it the other way, a manual transmission with an automatic clutch. People who can't/won't use a clutch, don't, and they're not about to learn. Lots of people don't mind shifting, however. Rambler offered that combination with its e-stick 50 years ago. The Ford tranny Nevyn describes sounds like it may be the ticket.

There's no advantage to your suggestion, AFAIK. It's simple to swap gear ratios in a manual transmission, and people who won't/can't use a clutch, won't.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Nevyn

That's what the Ford PowerShift 6 speed automatic is. It's an electronically clutched and shifted 6 speed dual-clutch manual gearbox. No Torque Converter, no ATF - just gears.

Uh, no on the manual part. The DCT can hold top gear but other than that the gears are automatically changed. And the clutch doesn't have a foot pedal. It's an automatic and even if it was sequential it would be a manual transmission in anyway. It uses a dry clutch so there's no more advantage for towing capacity anymore.

Some of the drag racers with big HP engines use 2 speed powerglides(an automatic) and they convert them to manual shift. Other than that there's no way to mix the two without building an entirely new transmission. I'd take a 6 speed manual with a 3rd pedal over the DCT.

[jkp1187]

JKP, guys. JKP.

@wagmore: Remember that your 15-year-old Passat (this one?) was rated using the old EPA cycle. The revised "official" numbers are 18 city/27 highway, which is actually worse than the 2010 Passat.

(For my money, the EPA numbers no doubt have flaws in them, but even though they're far from perfect, at least they allow us to compare wax apples to wax apples.)

[cujet]

My Jetta TDI has a auto DSG gearbox, with gears and 2 clutches, all computer controlled. Fantastic MPG. A manual could not possibly be better.

[dcb]

not possible?!? Are you serious? even the epa site lists the manual wtdi jetta ith a higher mpg than the auto.

Look, Manual is simpler/less expensive/less weight/more efficient/easier to get it to do what you want/more reliable.

Manual is the standard. Auto will always be trying to catch up, at great expense, stupid idea from an efficiency perspective.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Most modern autos beat manuals for FE these days.

Not in the models designed for efficiency.

[ShadeTreeMech]

an automatic clutch would be great. Especially if it were a torque convertor with an eager lockup. Slipping the clutch in low traction situations is the only disadvantage I can think of with a manual, and a torque convertor would cure that in a hurry.

[ATaylorRacing]

I noticed that our 05 Scion Xb that we used to own with tyhe automatic was rated 35 mpg...and got it, while the 5 speed sticks were rated at 34....BUT hypermiling would be easy on the stick!

[shovel]

External combustion would mean no gearbox whatsoever, you won't beat that with a manual or an auto.