some honda autos get better mileage than manuals?

[cujet]

Originally Posted by shovel

External combustion would mean no gearbox whatsoever, you won't beat that with a manual or an auto.

Of course, you'd need a engine with a specific impulse of 3 million + seconds to beat the new Lupo TDI.

[cujet]

Originally Posted by dcb

not possible?!? Are you serious? even the epa site lists the manual wtdi jetta ith a higher mpg than the auto.

Look, Manual is simpler/less expensive/less weight/more efficient/easier to get it to do what you want/more reliable.

Manual is the standard. Auto will always be trying to catch up, at great expense, stupid idea from an efficiency perspective.

Well, I looked up real world numbers on fueleconomy.gov. You were correct, the manual gets a touch better MPG in real world conditions. About 2%.

However, my experience is that the DSG matches my friends manual MPG here in Florida. (mostly fast highway).

[slurp812]

With a lockup torque converter, all that is left is the ratio. I am not impressed with transmissions that shift them selves, no matter how they do it. I often joke that I don't know how to drive an automatic...

[dcb]

Originally Posted by cujet

However, my experience is that the DSG matches my friends manual MPG here in Florida. (mostly fast highway).

Thats a little anecdotal. Honestly, take a look at the ecomodder garage
EcoModder Fleet list - EcoModder.com

skip past the first page of outliers till you get to some cars, and drill down on some of them. The top of the list is completely dominated by manual transmissions knocking EPA figures to the curb.

Manual allows for technique, and for you to use that awesome processor between your ears to make better energy management decisions, and it all becomes second nature in no time.

[Nevyn]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Uh, no on the manual part. The DCT can hold top gear but other than that the gears are automatically changed. And the clutch doesn't have a foot pedal. It's an automatic and even if it was sequential it would be a manual transmission in anyway. It uses a dry clutch so there's no more advantage for towing capacity anymore.

Some of the drag racers with big HP engines use 2 speed powerglides(an automatic) and they convert them to manual shift. Other than that there's no way to mix the two without building an entirely new transmission. I'd take a 6 speed manual with a 3rd pedal over the DCT.

It's electronically clutched, and electronically shifted. It's basically a dual-clutch style race transmission in a mass produced general sale car. 6 gears on two shafts, one clutch per shaft.

HowStuffWorks "How Dual-clutch Transmissions Work"

[tjts1]

Just get used to it and accept the facts.
Jetta TDI
Manual 30/41
Auto 30/42

Civic
manual 26/34
Auto 25/36

Fusion
Manual 22/29
Auto 22/31

5, 6 and 7 speed autos are becoming more and more common even in cheap cars. As they take over the market its only natural that they become more efficient than manuals.

[SentraSE-R]

The 2006 Scion xB automatic is rated 26/31 v. the manual's 26/30. Does anyone, including tjts1, seriously think an automatic Scion is going to approach the 45.9 mpg I've gotten from my manual over the past 12,770 miles? I'd be happy to top low 40 mpg average, long term, with an automatic in the same vehicle.

[PaleMelanesian]

Agreed. I'm getting great mileage because it's a manual, and in spite of the gear ratios. If it was geared well, I could have another 5 mpg or so available. The whole reason autos are getting better mileage is because the manuals are crippled with horrible gear ratios.

The best automatic can only be as good as, but not better than, a manual transmission. (provided the gear ratios are equal) They still lack the flexibility to be exploited for maximum mileage the way a manual can be.

[gone-ot]

...the underlying reason many auto's get better EPA mpg numbers than manuals is that they're computer-controlled and better "tuned" to the EPA city-urban loop testing.

...however, this "advantage" is quickly & easily defeated by driver stupidity!

...once they're in "lockup" it's simple axle-ratio(A) vs. axle-ratio(M).

[99LeCouch]

My fiancee's Honda Fit auto gets okay mileage. About 30 combined. It shines on the highway since the 5th cog brings the highway RPM's down to ~2100 at 60 mph. The manual version is buzzing around 3000 RPM at the same speed.

Around town you have to drive it carefully since it wants to downshift at every little touch on the DBW accelerator. I've managed 42 mpg over 5 miles of dense city traffic before, without using many hypermiling techniques beyond driving sanely and timing lights. She gets about 27 mpg for the same trip.