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Old 04-27-2010, 10:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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some honda autos get better mileage than manuals?

I just noticed the website specs on the Honda Fit are 1mpg higher on the auto transmission than manual, and the Civic Sedan auto does 1mpg lower in the city, but higher on the highway compared to manual.

(EDIT: links to Honda spec pages removed cuz I is uber n00b)

Porque?

This seems to go against the conventional wisdom that manuals are more efficient. Is this mathematical fudgery or some new technology?

Thanks,
Wagmore

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Old 04-27-2010, 10:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagmore View Post
I just noticed the website specs on the Honda Fit are 1mpg higher on the auto transmission than manual, and the Civic Sedan auto does 1mpg lower in the city, but higher on the highway compared to manual.

(EDIT: links to Honda spec pages removed cuz I is uber n00b)

Porque?

This seems to go against the conventional wisdom that manuals are more efficient. Is this mathematical fudgery or some new technology?

Thanks,
Wagmore
Auto gearboxes have improved significantly...and also, manual gearboxes are often geared a little different (to be "sporty"). So on the EPA cycle, the autos are often rated equal to or better than the manual for the same car.

An aggressive hypermiler will probably do better with a manual than an auto, but I think the EPA cycle plays to the averages.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Many new autos, next to 'eco' and 'sport' modes, also have a 'manual' mode, allowing the driver to pick gears. I'd like to see a test between 'normal', 'eco' and 'manual' modes.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Wagmoe, Welcome to the place as well.

Cheers , Peter.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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...I'd like to see a true 6-speed mechanical gear box that automatically "shifted" between gears using hydraulics and simultaneously used a ferro-fluid (electromagnetic) "clutch"--both under computer control, ie: an automatic gear box!

...no 'planetary' sun gears or 'clutching' "bands" for me!

...I want solid "metal-on-metal" gears and 100% solid electro-fluid-mechanical "torque" lockup!

P.S.--Corvette already uses ferro-fluid viscus coupling for variable, while-driving, control of shock absorber response.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp1187 View Post
Auto gearboxes have improved significantly...and also, manual gearboxes are often geared a little different (to be "sporty"). So on the EPA cycle, the autos are often rated equal to or better than the manual for the same car.

An aggressive hypermiler will probably do better with a manual than an auto, but I think the EPA cycle plays to the averages.
Thanks for the input!

Looking at all the big car manufacturers' websites these days, I'm amazed how few new models can even claim to beat the mileage of my fifteen-year-old Passat.

We like our luxury and performance now, but we'll pay for it later.

Wagmore
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I agree with jpk1187 about the gearing. If the gearing in the autos and the manuals were the same, the manuals would win out. that being said, automatics have come a long way from the days when a 4 speed automatic was something to be shocked at.
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I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If you're interested in achieving highest mpg, get the manual. I'd amend jpk1187's statement to say an aggressive hypermiler will always do better with a manual than an auto. Unless/until they invent an auto that locks up in all gears, allows EOC, is geared better for highway cruising than the equivalent manual, is equally reliable, and doesn't have a premium price tag.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Something I've always wondered about is why couldn't a manual clutch be fitted to an automatic transmission? You'd have to use the clutch as in a manual car, but the shifts would be automatic and you could take advantage of the better ratios. What energy losses are there in the auto other than having to pump the fluid?
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Quote:
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I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...I'd like to see a true 6-speed mechanical gear box that automatically "shifted" between gears using hydraulics and simultaneously used a ferro-fluid (electromagnetic) "clutch"--both under computer control, ie: an automatic gear box!

...no 'planetary' sun gears or 'clutching' "bands" for me!

...I want solid "metal-on-metal" gears and 100% solid electro-fluid-mechanical "torque" lockup!

P.S.--Corvette already uses ferro-fluid viscus coupling for variable, while-driving, control of shock absorber response.
That's what the Ford PowerShift 6 speed automatic is. It's an electronically clutched and shifted 6 speed dual-clutch manual gearbox. No Torque Converter, no ATF - just gears.

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