toyota sales halted (of 8 models)

[wdb]

Yikes. There it is again; clear indication that this is a Toyota problem, not a problem with DBW or electronic controls in general. This is going to leave a permanent scar on the company.

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Video: Expert recreates Toyota sudden acceleration

He says he can reproduce the problem, he's apparently the only one who can do that, and he does not tell us how so we can verify it. Dubious article.

[cfg83]

Neil -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Video: Expert recreates Toyota sudden acceleration

Wow. So it's the electronics, but it's also garbage-in, garbage out. I consider the artificial-short to be a "sensor gone bad". The software in the car computer is gets bad sensor input and CHOOSES to ignore the driver's input. I am guessing that Toyota will state that the test is not fair, but it does replicate the symptoms quite well. Even if they need a hardware fix for the short, I think a software upgrade would be cheaper to do (rock = ???, paper = accelerator, scissors = brake).

The Titanic Syndrome lives (a set of ifs leading to disaster [for Toyota])!

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

tasdrouille -

Originally Posted by tasdrouille

He says he can reproduce the problem, he's apparently the only one who can do that, and he does not tell us how so we can verify it. Dubious article.

So you think he faked it? I'll wait for more info, but I will chalk it up to the structure of the news piece.

CarloSW2

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by cfg83

tasdrouille -

So you think he faked it? I'll wait for more info, but I will chalk it up to the structure of the news piece.

CarloSW2

If it's a software problem, why are they recalling only the cars with the CTS pedals?

[Piwoslaw]

Originally Posted by tasdrouille

If it's a software problem, why are they recalling only the cars with the CTS pedals?

Maybe the CTS pedals send a different (type of) signal to the ECU? Just guessing, but are the different pedals (or their sensors) interchangable?

[user removed]

I think its a combination of events.

Partially floor mats.

Partially accelerator design.

The pedal manufacturer makes a lot of pedals for other companies that do no have this issue, and Toyota has pressured suppliers to reduce costs dramatically, since they are-were the big dog in the industry.

Mostly the fail safe mode of the ecu that does not recognize the combination of signals an disable the throttle control input signal. I think this is what the demonstration illustrates. Pure speculation, but as systems become so much more complex the potential chain reaction failures that are not properly anticipated become exponential in their possibilities.

Personally I think this is just the tip of the iceberg as these complex computer critical systems suffer the effects of age and salt, water, corrosion, etc.

I have seen a leaky windshield fill an engine and exhaust system with fuel, when the car was sitting overnight without the key in the ignition. Shorted the grounds out in the ECU and the fuel pump and injectors came on with the injectors wide open, with the ignition in the off (column locked) position. A replaced ECU did the exact same thing 3 months later, before we found out the customer had the windshield replaced a month before the original failure. Engine completely filled with fuel and two gallons in the exhaust system.

Remember the B2 crash (2 billion dollars gone).

regards
Mech

[dcb]

Personally I think it is really stupid to think that shifting gears and having to actually turn a key constitutes an insufferable amount of "work". The button is a solution searching for a problem, that in the process is making new problems. It is unbelievably stupid when you take a step back. Consumers are the ones who have to take control of their cars back from the folks pushing these gimmicks.

[cfg83]

tasdrouille -

Originally Posted by tasdrouille

If it's a software problem, why are they recalling only the cars with the CTS pedals?

I agree with Old Mechanic. A lot of people don't believe that the pedals are the main problem. Toyota already tried to blame the floormat, and it didn't fly. I am guessing the pedals are a contributor, aka one of the "ifs" that, when put together, lead to the "Titanic Syndrome".

CarloSW2

[cfg83]

dcb -

Originally Posted by dcb

Personally I think it is really stupid to think that shifting gears and having to actually turn a key constitutes an insufferable amount of "work". The button is a solution searching for a problem, that in the process is making new problems. It is unbelievably stupid when you take a step back. Consumers are the ones who have to take control of their cars back from the folks pushing these gimmicks.

I know what you mean. Getting a new car becomes less desirable every day.

However, I am guessing that, besides the bling, it's also a cost-savings. You can make one button that works across product lines vs. a mechanical ignition key mechanism that has X-number of combinations.

But I may be wrong. Does the Lexus use a "key card" or a "normal" ignition key in order to enable the start button? A key card can be programmed, so you wouldn't have to maintain a bunch of mechanical ignition key combinations.

Who was it that posted that cars originally had keys to unlock "start buttons", just like the Lexus? Or did I read that on the net somewhere else?

CarloSW2