Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-22-2024, 07:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 271
Thanks: 96
Thanked 122 Times in 98 Posts
Serial Hybrids:
https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors/videos
NB; all the videos.

for the pretty pic:



No aero to speak of. Just an easy and cheap to fix and maintain logging truck EV, with a genset..!
(ye; all that constant rpm and load aerohead is speaking about
and
Empty up the mountain, loaded down the mountain + regen..)


Last edited by Logic; 09-22-2024 at 07:58 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Logic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-23-2024)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-22-2024, 12:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,679

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD

Pacifica Hybrid - '21 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid
90 day: 85.85 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,304
Thanked 4,460 Times in 3,426 Posts
Series hybrid might be the way to go with trucking, just as is done on trains. Next question then is at what weight or driving cycle is a series design better than parallel?
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-23-2024)
Old 09-22-2024, 01:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,360
Thanks: 8,009
Thanked 8,823 Times in 7,279 Posts
An inspiring story.
Quote:
No aero to speak of.
I think aerohead would approve of the standoffs for the rear view mirrors. It's got low frontal area and front wheel spats.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2024, 04:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 271
Thanks: 96
Thanked 122 Times in 98 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Series hybrid might be the way to go with trucking, just as is done on trains. Next question then is at what weight or driving cycle is a series design better than parallel?
Ye that's a really good question!

The Koenigsegg Regera uses a torque converter with lock up to '7th gear' the wheels and a generator to drive 2 motors for pullaway and to top up a small 'regen battery'
it's a clever idea to get both (series parallel) and does pretty well for what it is, but it's not an eco car.
The numbers may still be worth looking at though. if one can find them.

Some numbers here at the end of the video, but this guy is more interested in making money on YouTube than actual engineering. And that's a good thing in his case IMHO

That's his latest vid. There are other vids.

Probably the best implementation with reduced lightened battery is the Obrist Tesla:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...=Obrist+Tesla+

Interesting engine too:
Damn good way to do a large cylinder offset with no vibration..!
Pity Obrist seems to consider that little nugget of information a state secret for some crazy reason... or... it hasn't occurred to him..!?

For those new to offset cylinders:
That's when the cylinders aren't directly above the crankshaft but offset to the side some so that the conrod is more vertical during the power stroke, giving less friction and more degrees of power stroke etc:

Last edited by Logic; 09-22-2024 at 04:51 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2024, 06:56 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,360
Thanks: 8,009
Thanked 8,823 Times in 7,279 Posts

Big ol' Scania motor.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2024, 12:16 AM   #16 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,782
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,664 Times in 1,483 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Series hybrid might be the way to go with trucking, just as is done on trains.
Most of those giant dump trucks used on mining sites also rely on serial hybrid powerplants.


Quote:
Next question then is at what weight or driving cycle is a series design better than parallel?
Sure the weight difference between a serial hybrid setup and a more conventional driveline, which could be fitted to either a non-hybrid or a parallel hybrid, is also significant. Once a scaled-down ICE, generator, battery pack, wiring and direct-drive electric motor become lighter in weight than a large engine, transmission and driveshaft (some big-rig engines are really heavy), just like it's the case for those mining field trucks, efficiency tends to increase.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2024, 10:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,178
Thanks: 24,324
Thanked 7,333 Times in 4,740 Posts
' series vs parallel '

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Series hybrid might be the way to go with trucking, just as is done on trains. Next question then is at what weight or driving cycle is a series design better than parallel?
You might go to SAE International's website and do a search there. They typically have an abstract for every paper, free to peruse, that often provides enough information such that there's no need to purchase the paper.
BMW and GM have both offered serial-hybrids, and they might have published answers to your questions.
The 'serial' Gen-II VOLT gets 37-mpg, driving coast-to-coast.
The 'parallel' Prius does the same @ 55-mpg.
Exploring the specific differences between the two vehicles might 'flush out' the explanation.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2024, 04:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 271
Thanks: 96
Thanked 122 Times in 98 Posts
Obrist...Tesla consists of a two-cylinder, 1.0-liter gasoline engine ... claimed to deliver fuel consumption of just 2.0 lt/100km (118 US mpg/141 mpg Imperial).
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/09/ob...a-into-a-phev/


At a guess I would say an economical series hybrid should ask you where you're going, GPS style (with saveable/selectable favorites), before you leave.
Then it's computer can work out just how much and where the ICE should come on.
ie:
Know that for eg: its a std commute to work where you will plug in to charge.
(saved to/selected from favorites)
Or that you are just nipping to your local cafe quickly (close) and there's no reason to come on at all.

The computer might even log these trip's to better learn just how much regen you will be getting and where you will be flooring it up a steep hill, etc.
ie: learn your normal routes.

Another issue with series hybrids is cold starts.
I would guess that, during a longer trip, it should come on often enough to avoid cooling down too much.
Coming on during most all accelerations to minimize amp draw from the battery (increasing it's lifespan), is probably the way to go.

In short: (What everyone is calling) A.I... for economy...
E.I!

But at the end of the day, only the driver really knows whats actually going to happen ahead of time...
So being able to press an on switch because you're about to race a Lambo or something is a necessity! IMHO.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Logic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-26-2024)
Old 09-26-2024, 10:14 AM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,178
Thanks: 24,324
Thanked 7,333 Times in 4,740 Posts
' longer trip '

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic View Post
Obrist...Tesla consists of a two-cylinder, 1.0-liter gasoline engine ... claimed to deliver fuel consumption of just 2.0 lt/100km (118 US mpg/141 mpg Imperial).
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/09/ob...a-into-a-phev/


At a guess I would say an economical series hybrid should ask you where you're going, GPS style (with saveable/selectable favorites), before you leave.
Then it's computer can work out just how much and where the ICE should come on.
ie:
Know that for eg: its a std commute to work where you will plug in to charge.
(saved to/selected from favorites)
Or that you are just nipping to your local cafe quickly (close) and there's no reason to come on at all.

The computer might even log these trip's to better learn just how much regen you will be getting and where you will be flooring it up a steep hill, etc.
ie: learn your normal routes.

Another issue with series hybrids is cold starts.
I would guess that, during a longer trip, it should come on often enough to avoid cooling down too much.
Coming on during most all accelerations to minimize amp draw from the battery (increasing it's lifespan), is probably the way to go.

In short: (What everyone is calling) A.I... for economy...
E.I!

But at the end of the day, only the driver really knows whats actually going to happen ahead of time...
So being able to press an on switch because you're about to race a Lambo or something is a necessity! IMHO.
On the Chevy VOLT, cross-country trek, the engine ran continuously. The battery was essentially 'dead' after 53-miles.
In 'EPA COMBINED' cycle driving, regen may constitute 20% of the total range, as with the BOLT.
For EPA HIGHWAY cycle operation, I have no data.
And the way I drive on the highway, it probably wouldn't resemble the EPA dynamometer cycle.
On the 700+ mile drive from New Mexico to home, the Interstate grades were so gentle, I observed regen only 'twice.'
Many unknowns!
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 09-26-2024 at 10:18 AM.. Reason: add data
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
Logic (09-26-2024)
Old 09-26-2024, 04:54 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: South Africa
Posts: 271
Thanks: 96
Thanked 122 Times in 98 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
On the Chevy VOLT, cross-country trek, the engine ran continuously. The battery was essentially 'dead' after 53-miles.
In 'EPA COMBINED' cycle driving, regen may constitute 20% of the total range, as with the BOLT.
For EPA HIGHWAY cycle operation, I have no data.
And the way I drive on the highway, it probably wouldn't resemble the EPA dynamometer cycle.
On the 700+ mile drive from New Mexico to home, the Interstate grades were so gentle, I observed regen only 'twice.'
Many unknowns!

The 'new 'Chevy' asks where you're going, how fast you want to get there and if you will be able to plug in on arrival and for how long.
Looks at a map:
" Hmmm... towns n robots here gives us around ?? kwh of regen and the downhills here, here and here... so we need xyz kwh to get there, the battery's been plugged in? so we're engine on for ???km of the trip.
Best place to be on to help with battery amp draw is here here and here.
Did I miss anything?"

Direct drive on the flat bits.

"Check"

We're in a hurry.

Pulling away: "we-we-GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...!"

What the hell did you put that on for!?

"Because you're always ..'late!' and you forgot to plug me in again!"

****!
Why didn't you remind me!?

"Because you muted me again! you horrible sh "



Last edited by Logic; 09-26-2024 at 05:09 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com