Why doesn't the U.S. get good FE cars?

[Bror Jace]

"... the gasser is coming to US but not high mileage diesel. Go figure."

Will the diesel pass US emissions? Even if it did, Americans are conditioned to not like diesels. Probably because of the awful diesel cars we had here 20+ years ago.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by Bror Jace

"... the gasser is coming to US but not high mileage diesel. Go figure."

Will the diesel pass US emissions? Even if it did, Americans are conditioned to not like diesels. Probably because of the awful diesel cars we had here 20+ years ago.

Where did you read Americans are not conditioned to not like diesels? I must have missed that class in school. I see them everyday on the road and haven't noticed any "Diesel Sucks" bumper stickers lately. If a 65 mpg diesel car was sold in my town I would be all over it. You could squeeze 85 mpg or more out of it plus longevity is normally higher in diesels. Also you can more alternate fuels in diesels.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Bror Jace

Will the diesel pass US emissions? Even if it did, Americans are conditioned to not like diesels. Probably because of the awful diesel cars we had here 20+ years ago.

Is that why the Jetta TDI is sold out through next January?

[SuperTrooper]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Ah, but you're bringing in other criteria to change the equation. The claim was that people wouldn't pay more for a small car than a big one. Those are some of the smaller cars on the market, and they're priced more than typical large cars, thus disproving the claim.

The problem is that you and the auto makers are thinking small car equals econobox, and of course and econobox is, by definition, cheap. But small can also be luxurious, performance-oriented, or just plain fun, and if you give your small car one or more of those qualities, it will sell at a substantially higher price than an econobox. For instance, MSRP on the base Mini is $28,550.

You slipped a digit james. $18,550

A persons willingness to pay a higher price for whatever depends on their perception of the value provided by the item, either in function or status. Stop confusing NEEDS with desires. People need transportation. NOBODY NEEDS A PORSCHE! Some people spend all kinds of stupid money on things like that because they can. The rest of us have to balance function vs price.

[Big Dave]

bbjsw10 posted:

"It will pass US crash standards..."

Dave says:

Maybe.

If the world of regulatory compliance, non-compliance is assumed until compliance is demonstrated.

Ford is on the ropes. If they could sell the ECOnetic and make a profit, why would they not import them?

There is a huge difference between the requirements of the Euro 5 spec and EPA Tier II. To comply with Tier II a barrier filter is needed. The filter rig for Super Duty costs $4,500 dealers price. Maybe the filter for a ECOnetic diesel may cost less...like $3,500.

I keep telling you, its the regs.

[Bror Jace]

Guys, look at the diesel car offerings in the last 20-30 years here in the states. Aside from the occasional VW or Mercedes 240D, There have been NO commercially successful diesel cars in this market. Most car companies don't even offer one ... although I expect that to change in the coming years.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

bbjsw10 posted:

"It will pass US crash standards..."

Dave says:

Maybe.

Here is a link to the U.S.A. Ford Fiesta for late 2009, So yeah the gasser will pass crash standards. But the diesel will not pass our country definition of emissions friendly. Parts per million instead of grams per mile.

Link:http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/27/n...-by-late-2009/
Taken directly from that link: We lamented at the time neither the Mazda or its Ford counterpart would ever be sold on U.S. shores, but apparently Ford had decided before the Geneva show that the Fiesta would be bound for the U.S.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

You slipped a digit james. $18,550

Funny, I just copied it from a search. The point's still the same.

[

Stop confusing NEEDS with desires. People need transportation. NOBODY NEEDS A PORSCHE! Some people spend all kinds of stupid money on things like that because they can. The rest of us have to balance function vs price.

I'm confusing needs with desires? If so, it seems you're doing the same confusion. Nobody* needs a jacked-up 4WD pickup or SUV to do their freeway commute, yet the automakers and their advertising have convinced many people to buy them, paying as much or more than many of the small, fun cars I mentioned.

Those of us who balance function (or any other desired quality) with price won't be buying new cars anyway. Those who do obviously have money to spare, and are just as willing to spend it on expensive small cars as expensive big ones.

(*Well, maybe the 0.1% that e.g. work on a ranch miles from paved roads, but those folks are mostly sensible, and drive old beaters :-))

[slurp812]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Nobody* needs a jacked-up 4WD pickup or SUV to do their freeway commute, yet the automakers and their advertising have convinced many people to buy them, paying as much or more than many of the small, fun cars I mentioned.

The automakers are not really to blame. They have tried to sell smaller efficient cars. up until recently, we weren't buying them. Well not many of us anyways. I am a minority on our street, our driveway only has 2 cars in it. No minivan, truck, or SUV. Iv been driving a 4cyl car for YEARS now. Even when it was only $20 to fill it up vs $40 for a truck, I couldn't see why they liked trucks/SUV's, but most Americans do. The auto makers will make vehicles that sell, that seems to be changing now to something smaller, and more aerodynamic.

[larryrose11]

big Dave:
Your exactly right about crash testing. Luckly, CPU time is cheap in comparison to changing stampings. Simulations do a great bulk of the testing before a design is ready. In the case of Ford, a raft of new euro models are being worked on right now, and most of the changes are crash and emissions. The stampings must be modified such that all world regulations for crash and safety are met in order to keep the platform common.

The easy things to change on existing models are already in the works: Aero, Tires, calibration. Coming to showroom in the near future.

As for the 2009 Ford Fiesta ECOnetic, email Ford directly about this car and making a similar ECOnetic package for All Fords. From their (Ford's) point of view, the Fiesta ECOnetic is too slow for americam taste, and it has a manual tranny.
If you write Ford, call this out:
You would be willing to trade performance (0-60 time >=10 seconds) and a manual gearbox for good fuel economy, and would buy one if it was available. Ford is trying to balance performance vs FE for its new models. Without a clear market, it wont be available.