Wide tires the great conspiracy.

[cistercian]

Originally Posted by diesel_john

I will admit that the choices I gave for the survey are pretty lame. And probably violated every rule in surveyology. I am just tic'd that 13" tires are being phased out.
diesel_john

It is like they are trying to put the biggest flywheels they can on every corner.
A great strategy for killing urban cycle mileage.Potholes eat small wheels like 13".I run 14" steel on my 95 civic.I don't think 13's would be a good choice on the roads here for my use.But I also notice when wheel shopping most choices are for 15" and up.Fewer choices in 14 for my car.So I will stick with the stock steel.
Some of the new cars have good drag numbers...but they come with expensive flywheels at each corner...arrrrggggghhhhh!

[pounsfos]

well they do help with traction, for example my car has 155/70/12\s on it at the moment,
I can get my car slideways very easily (if i want to but i'm a safe driver most the time)
with 175/70/13's i cant get my car sideways no matter how hard i try, i cannot do "skids" and no matter how hard i take a corner the dam things wont lose traction unlike the smaller tyres, so they do help, but i assume that it does get to a point where the difference becomes minimal

[phunky.buddha]

Wider is better... for me. Here's my rationale- more grip = higher cornering speeds = less acceleration after a turn. So far I'm hitting 1.05G sustained on my morning commute. No need to slow down for cloverleafs or really anything else at all. No slowing = no acceleration = more saved gas. Um. Yeah.

[diesel_john]

I wanted 155's. The local dealers wanted me to have 175's. that led me to the bigger conspiracy. the auto manuf. just know you need 4wd because they specd tires that won't go when we really need too.

[Varn]

Diesel John I had the same problem with my mechanic. At his suggestion I decided to go to tire rack order the 155x13 tires and have him put them on and balance.

I got some winter firestones and really like them It goes like a tractor in the winter. They are quiet. Probably will melt down some this year but I can get a couple of years I will be happy.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by phunky.buddha

Wider is better... for me. Here's my rationale- more grip = higher cornering speeds = less acceleration after a turn. ... Um. Yeah.

Sarcasm noted, clarification offered:
wider tires scrub more when not going in a straight line, and have more aerodynamic and rolling resistance (to a point).

If you start coasting for the corner sooner on narrower tires and take it at something less than 1G, it will more than make up for the scrubbing and hysteresis and constant loss of wider tires.

[phunky.buddha]

Originally Posted by dcb

Sarcasm noted, clarification offered:
wider tires scrub more when not going in a straight line, and have more aerodynamic and rolling resistance (to a point).

If you start coasting for the corner sooner on narrower tires and take it at something less than 1G, it will more than make up for the scrubbing and hysteresis and constant loss of wider tires.

Yup, definitely more aerodynamic and rolling drag. I lost about 5% efficiency with this latest tire change, but to me it was worth it. You assume scrubbing, but I don't really have any understeer to worry about- more grip for me means more braking and higher turning speeds. My primary priority is grip and handling- any gains I can make towards economy are a bonus that I try to achieve later with driving habits and drafting on long trips.

I went from 225/50-16 front and 245/45-16 rear to 255/40-17 all around with a 140 treadwear rating and I absolutely love it.

As far as wider tires being a conspiracy- I think NO. Car manufacturers try to design their cars to hit certain performance/efficiency targets, so they try to size their tire selection accordingly. Usually a larger diameter tire will net efficiency gains in the drivetrain by allowing lower rotation speeds before the wheel, and larger wheels look better for the consumer, plus clear larger brakes for heavier cars with more safety equipment and cargo capacity...

I guess we could all go back to the original Minis with their 10" wheels.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by phunky.buddha

... You assume scrubbing, but I don't really have any understeer to worry about- more grip for me means more braking and higher turning speeds. My primary priority is grip and handling- any gains I can make towards economy are a bonus that I try to achieve later with driving habits and drafting on long trips.

Tires "scrub" anytime you turn them, they don't have to be slipping. In fact a sliding tire is actually losing less energy as you are no longer changing the vehicles direction as much. Not that that is a smart way to take corners....

[Frank Lee]

and larger wheels look better for the consumer

This is the main reason.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by phunky.buddha

Yup, definitely more aerodynamic and rolling drag. I lost about 5% efficiency with this latest tire change, but to me it was worth it. You assume scrubbing, but I don't really have any understeer to worry about- more grip for me means more braking and higher turning speeds. My primary priority is grip and handling- any gains I can make towards economy are a bonus that I try to achieve later with driving habits and drafting on long trips.

...I guess we could all go back to the original Minis with their 10" wheels.

13" tires certainly cost a lot less than 16" or 17" tires do. Many of the people here are interested in saving money as a top priority. I am too, but I'm not willing to sacrifice good handling for it - which is why I won't buy narrow 80 series tires, no matter what small amount of fuel they supposedly save.