Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-18-2013, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,879
Thanks: 23,955
Thanked 7,219 Times in 4,646 Posts
100 MPH (160 km/hr) on 1-hp/746 Watts

If you didn't catch Delft University of Technology's Velox 2 September IHPVA triumph at Battle Mountain,Nevada you should check it out.
They got to 83.1 mph at elevation,which equates to 100 MPH at sea level.
Their rider,Sebastian was exerting 800-Watts of power.Subtracting a smidgeon for the roller chain losses gives a road load of about 1-hp.
Aerodynamics?,we don't need no stinkin' aerodynamics.
here's a pic:
By the way,be thinking about synthetic vision from now on.It's gaining traction.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 10-18-2013 at 06:27 PM.. Reason: Add PS
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (10-18-2013), user removed (10-18-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-18-2013, 07:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,594

RippinRoo - '05 Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Subaru
90 day: 21.16 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 53.91 mpg (US)

Olga - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon
90 day: 46.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 303
Thanked 311 Times in 186 Posts
Always surprises me when they put the camera up on a stalk like that rather than having a transparent section of the nose with the camera behind it... Guess it's not all that big a deal aerodynamically...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2013, 10:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
I'd like to see them actually hit 100 mph at sea level.

But that's insane... does the man have Martian lungs?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Here is the pic aero head linked to:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tmp_velox3.JPG-660989599.jpeg
Views:	487
Size:	34.3 KB
ID:	13952  
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-19-2013)
Old 10-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Southern Squidbillie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 97
Thanks: 50
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts
Looks like they used the template but are running it backwards? They mentioned having an aerodynamic issue which prevented reaching the calculated top speed.

Human Power Team Delft & Amsterdam
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kennybobby For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-19-2013)
Old 10-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
They got to 83.1 mph at elevation,which equates to 100 MPH at sea level.
I'd really like to see the rationale for that claim. Since air density (& hence resistance) is higher at sea level than at Battle Mountain's moderate elevation (~4500 ft), it's likely that the top speed at sea level would have been less. (It's certainly true for airplanes...)

It might be thought that the pedaler would output less power due to thinner air, but that's not the case, particularly if he spent a few days training at similar altitudes. The body adapts - and a mere 4500 ft elevation isn't really enough to matter much, anyhow.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jamesqf For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-19-2013)
Old 10-19-2013, 02:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,879
Thanks: 23,955
Thanked 7,219 Times in 4,646 Posts
issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybobby View Post
Looks like they used the template but are running it backwards? They mentioned having an aerodynamic issue which prevented reaching the calculated top speed.

Human Power Team Delft & Amsterdam
As Sebastiaan exceeded 500-Watts of power output,he was stressing the body structure enough to deform its shape,hence altering the airflow/CdA.
This is in the realm of Kelly Johnson's Skunk Works engineering.Making it just strong enough for the task.
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2013, 02:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoWalker
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,998

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 49.01 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,711
Thanked 2,245 Times in 1,454 Posts
The reason they went there is the lower resistance at altitude.
Of course the rider has less oxygen too and cannot get as much oxygen an will produce slightly less power, but these guys are professional sprinters; one of the other contestants was Theo Bos, multiple sprint world champion(*)
They use their white muscle tissue and get their oxygen after the race.

Put two in a tandem bicycle, then maybe 100 mph is possible.

The camera on the stalk was lighter than one in the nose with a long cable to the screen.

(*) I have to take that back.
It was not Theo but rather his brother Jan Bos that I saw, a former sprint speed skating world champion competing for one of the other teams. Many skaters use cycling for training and some excel in both disciplines. A pur sang sprinter no less.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.2 Gmeter or 0.13 Mmile.


For confirmation go to people just like you.
For education go to people unlike yourself.

Last edited by RedDevil; 10-20-2013 at 02:01 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedDevil For This Useful Post:
aerohead (10-19-2013)
Old 10-19-2013, 02:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,879
Thanks: 23,955
Thanked 7,219 Times in 4,646 Posts
template

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybobby View Post
Looks like they used the template but are running it backwards? They mentioned having an aerodynamic issue which prevented reaching the calculated top speed.

Human Power Team Delft & Amsterdam
To me it's more of an extremely narrow elliptical fuselage morphing to a wing section trailing edge.Like a tuna.
Craig Vetter spoke of 'shrink-wrapping' the body around the necessary mechanical tidbits,allowing only enough to contain things,minimizing frontal area while preventing separation.
At GOOGLE IMAGES you can see a CFD image of the Velox 2 in VSAERO.
Here's a sliced open shot
Here's the CFD
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 10-19-2013 at 02:33 PM.. Reason: add CFD
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
kennybobby (10-19-2013)
Old 10-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,879
Thanks: 23,955
Thanked 7,219 Times in 4,646 Posts
rationale

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
I'd really like to see the rationale for that claim. Since air density (& hence resistance) is higher at sea level than at Battle Mountain's moderate elevation (~4500 ft), it's likely that the top speed at sea level would have been less. (It's certainly true for airplanes...)

It might be thought that the pedaler would output less power due to thinner air, but that's not the case, particularly if he spent a few days training at similar altitudes. The body adapts - and a mere 4500 ft elevation isn't really enough to matter much, anyhow.
When I first went out there the HPA folks told me that it was a matter of metabolic equivalency.They expected muscle output to suffer from the lower oxygen transport and factored in the density difference with respect to drag issues.
At essentially the same elevation,east of them at Bonneville,my truck was down to 124 bhp vs 150 bhp at sea level due to the density altitude.I'd have about a 12% reduction in drag due to the thinner air,and if the salt could have produced a similar rolling force coefficient as pavement (not the case),my top speed should have been identical to sea level.
The temp and humidity is probably kinder to the riders at Battle Mountain as it might be at Daytona Beach,or out on California Highway-1 near Paradise Cove/Zuma Beach.
They're enclosed in the shells with virtually zero ventilation.Worse than NASCAR.
I felt,and feel that they've done their homework very well and have a high confidence in their numbers.
Watching Sam Whittingham coming at me at over 81 mph was a transformational experience to say the least.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com