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Old 09-04-2008, 07:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaneda View Post
... engineers said there should be three... they built -tested-retested with three... you were built with two feet(i hope) what would happen if we discarded one?...
But using that logic we should not do any modifications to our vehicles thus making most of EcoModder forums in the wrong.

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Old 09-04-2008, 09:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Engineers are not omniscient

[QUOTE=Kaneda;58659]i fear the worst in cutting a cylinder from the mix... engineers said there should be three... they built -tested-retested with three.

Engineers design cars to satisfy a list of common requirements. If mine are different, I can take that into account and change things to suit. I learned enough engineering at the library to get applause from a graduating class of "real" engineers.
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dentprone View Post
I have nixed the two-cylinder idea...probably stopped me from doing something stupid.
Ohhhhhhh.... too bad. And it's not a stupid idea. If you had the time and energy to experiment with it, I think it would be a fun project! On the other hand, if you are just trying to get back on the road, a burned rod journal is almost always repairable, even if the crank is cracked. Either way you just and have it mag'd and reground. If needed you salvage a replacement used rod or have the burned one rebuilt. Or you buy a used crank and one rod if the crank is cracked and/or the rod is beyond rebuilding (any automotive crank grinding shop can help you with a visual inspection, precision measurement, and magnaflux test, everyday stuff for them).

Your 2 cylinder idea has a few things going for it, and plenty of precidence.

It may very well shake from the out of balance condition, but then again, my 3 cylinder metro already seems out of balance and it runs perfect Seriously though, a 2 cylinder may not be as bad as some would think, you would have to try it. I don't know if you would have to change anything on the intake side, the metro is common throttle body efi, the ECU might take away enough fuel so it could run properly with only 2/3 the displacement. If not, you might be able to reduce the fuel pressure slightly to bring 2 cylinders on a 3 cylinder system in to stoichiometric range.

Precidence: A completely different application than ecomodding I know, but an example none the less; There have been many, many salt flats racers who have pulled one rod/piston assembley to be able to race in a smaller engine displacement class... at the track no less! This old timer I was talking with said you just drop the oil pan and remove the rod cap, wrap the rod journal with leather and a hose clamp (to plug the oiling hole). Pull the head and remove the piston and rod out the top, then disable the valve train for the dead cylinder such that it's valves never open.

If I were expecting to convert a 3 cylinder Suzuki for a commuting experiment, I'd machine a non-rotating bob weight that clamps to the rod journal, similar to what Engine Balancer's use. I make it the same weight as a Metro piston and rod assy, and non-rotating so it would seal up the oil hole with no gasket or seal, just metal on metal. I'd grind the two lobes off the cam, which sounds to me like the easiest way to disable an OHC engine's vales train for one cylinder.

With that 'dead hole' not pumping dead air (no piston remember), I would imagine it being much more smooth operator than say, pulling a plug plug wire on your 1 liter metro engine. If I'm not mistaken, the journal rotation is such that you could select cylinders that allow it to fire every 360 degrees of crank rotation. Even if I'm wrong, you aren't making enough power where you need to worry about cracking the crank from the unbalanced torsional load. Again, you'd have to try it. my 2 cents
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Metromizer,

Thanks for the comments, I just dropped the block off at the machine shop today to be bored. The guy says that he can source a crank kit fairly cheap. I will be building this car for my wife to drive, so I have decided to keep this motor stock. Definitely something I may try in the future, though, on an uglier car. I missed out on the ugly Metro that I was going to use as a test vehicle. After driving 50 miles to pick it up, the owner could not produce the title. If I ever find another Metro, I will be looking hard at the Kubota 24hp 3 cylinder.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:10 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It would have absolutely no power. You would have a hard time keeping it idling, it would shake like crazy, you wouldn't be able to get above 45mph with the foot to the floor. Not fun.

Try it, you might have better results. At least then you will know!
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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It would have absolutely no power. You would have a hard time keeping it idling, it would shake like crazy, you wouldn't be able to get above 45mph with the foot to the floor. Not fun.

Try it, you might have better results. At least then you will know!



A diesel option is something I have been thinking about. There are plenty of sub-$1000 Metros out here. A couple can be had for $650-750. hmmmm
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dentprone View Post
Metromizer,

Thanks for the comments...If I ever find another Metro, I will be looking hard at the Kubota 24hp 3 cylinder.
That might have more perseved power than the stock 3 cylinder gas engine. I live in California, where we have bi-annual emissions testing, on a chassis dynomometer no less! I'm jealous, swapping in a 3 cylinder Kubota sounds like fun, but doesn't work for anyone in the SF Bay Area <unless you're willing to fly under the radar, which I can't do>.

Let us know how your engine rebuild goes in the wife's car
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah, we can get away with quite a bit here in FL.....but emission testing is coming someday, I imagine. I think you are right about perceived power, with the torque that the Kubota has.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i wonder if you could get a good NA VW 1.6 to swap in a Metro?
It would be a heavy beast compared to the 3cyl but they get 50+ in the heavy Jetta so...???
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh yeah....I have dreams of stuffing a late model VW TDI drivetrain into one of the old boxy Chevy sprint hatchbacks. Then build some old school steel flares, welded onto the fenders to cover the track difference.

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