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Old 03-31-2012, 11:37 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Devil Cressida - '86 Toyota Cressida Turbo L6
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pogue carb?

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Old 03-31-2012, 12:28 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I am man-
I'm sorry you don't understand this concept. A high pressure fuel charge being injected much before the throttle body will not allow it to be vaporized as soon, or have as much control over throttle input at extremely high AFR. Even with a 220 deg coolant core and turbo heating near EGT (heating fuel that is), it won't happen. 3psi fuel, yes. 50psi, no. The entire idea is to use engine heat to make combustion hotter, (all of the heat lost by the engine can be used to further increase combustion temps, closing in on a near perfect/max efficiency of a 4stroke based only on the materials of the engine used) it isn't possible with high pressure fuel.

Open up your mind I am not trying to argue with you I am trying to tell you how to run an engine without spark, it will not be accomplished with EFI. This is not with an OEM based carb, no OEM based carb will run successfully on gas out of the box. PM sent to link of write old up. It's no 'Unicorn' idea, its been done before and there are patents to prove it. 200mpg no, 40-60 mpg with twice stock power yes.

Last edited by mja1; 03-31-2012 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:41 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The purpose of EFI is to more precisely 'control' both the quantity of fuel injected and the timing of its injection...two aspects of fuel economy (FE) and power (HP) that the common pressure-differential carburetor cannot match...perform reasonably well? Yes, but match or exceed, NO WAY!

First, the carburetor functions on pressure difference--vacuum--which means its susceptable to atmospheric and altitude changes...EFI is a VERY stable constant volume and pressure device, albeit a computer-controlled system. Typical, normal-aspiration engines only achieve about 14.7 psi differentials at best, whereas a pressure-differential of over 2000-2500 psi is possible/common with today's EFI high-pressure piezo-injector systems. It's like the HUGE difference between raindrops and weather's mist!

Droplettes of gasoline don't burn very well nor very fast, resulting in less HP and even less fuel economy...while, the closer the gasoline volume within the air-fuel mixture is to a 'true' vapor, the more HP and better fuel economy...with LESS gasoline going out the tailpipe as emissions.

Last edited by gone-ot; 03-31-2012 at 01:56 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:47 PM   #84 (permalink)
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there actually was a 200mpg carb back in the 1940s, i have some paperwork on it.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:47 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
The purpose of EFI is to more precisely 'control' both the quantity of fuel injected and the timing of its injection...two aspects of fuel economy FE) and power (HP) that the common pressure-differential carburetor cannot match...perform reasonably well? Yes, but match or exceed, NO WAY!
(timing fuel isnt needed without ignition)

I see why this subforum is called what it is . I guess discussing is pointless, and the only way to prove it is to build it. It's been a dream of mine for a while now recreating the concept, but don't have enough time or resources to go ahead with a long term project like this right now.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:51 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja1 View Post
I see why this subforum is called what it is . I guess discussing is pointless, and the only way to prove it is to build it. It's been a dream of mine for a while now recreating the concept, but don't have enough time or resources to go ahead with a long term project like this right now.
...you've hit the nail-on-the-head: PROVE it. But, remember, proof demands evidence and evidence requires repeatability, ie: A-B-A tests with repeated evidencial results.

...just remember the paraphazed "Jerry McGuire" battle-cry:

"...show me/us the evidence..."

Last edited by gone-ot; 03-31-2012 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:54 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja1 View Post
(timing fuel isnt needed without ignition)
...it sure as hell *IS*--inject the gasoline too soon and predetonation occurs, too late and power is lost!

Go read about HCCI engines, before you bury your argument too deeply here.

Last edited by gone-ot; 03-31-2012 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:56 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...you've hit the nail-on-the-head: PROVE it. But, remember, proof demands evidence and evidence requires repeatability, ie: A-B-A tests with repeated evidencial results.
sadly it has been proven before more than once, people don't want to believe it. It must be taboo since it was done before the modern computer age. It makes it more difficult when people go touting an unrealistic 200mpg, more like 40-80 mpg depending on engine/car etc. (without hypermilling driving style).
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:58 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...it sure as hell *IS*--inject the gasoline too soon and predetonation occurs, too late and power is lost!

Go read about HCCI engines before you bury your argument too deeply here.
In this case preignition is what drives an engine's combustion without ignition. So it is necessary to have a 'predetonation' and to not time fuel charge.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:09 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja1 View Post
In this case preignition is what drives an engine's combustion without ignition. So it is necessary to have a 'predetonation' and to not time fuel charge.
Honest, I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, but that statement says you know nothing about Otto or Diesel compression/pressure mappings or their implications to engine operation, performance or efficiency.

I repeat, go read about HCCI before you dig a deeper hole.

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