Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-16-2017, 04:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,174 Times in 1,470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Alright, I worked on this thing for about 2.5 hours last night and... nada. That trans is not wanting to come off. I double and triple checked the service manual for anything that I may have missed. I looked over things in the engine bay thinking I might have missed a bolt. Everything looks fine, but that trans will not slide off. I've supported it, not supported it, wiggled it, hammered it. I'm not sure what I'll try next, but it sure is being stubborn!
This is what I did. Just like you, I pulled wiggled and banged on it. At one point I had like a 6 or 8 foot section of steel pipe braced up against it that I was hitting with a hammer maybe my 8 Pound Hammer. Un really lucky I didn't permanently damage something. In the end I discovered some bolts, maybe just one, that I had no idea was still there. It's been over 4 years and I don't remember exactly where it was. Once I had it off though the transmission came off quite easily. Though some of the dowel pins can be a little stiff. The only thing I can recommend is really searching the seam between the engine block and the transmission housing with your hands all around it especially down low and toward the back, which is where I think I ultimately found the bolts I'm referring to: somewhere down low or on the back. My car Is a civic, as you know, but the 6th generation civic and the first generation Honda insight had more in common than might at first seem to be the case. Good luck!

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-21-2017, 02:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
Alright, here is the next step I took. I got a ratchet strap, hooked it on each end of the trans, and wrapped the middle around the chassis beam. With this, I was able to keep tension on the transmission.





Then, I started at it with a flat bladed screw driver and a hammer slowly pulling it apart. Then, I found what was hanging things up... no surprise here, rust! The locating pins on the trans/engine were seized up. There was no big pop and it coming loose, it had to be fought the entire way off. Here are pics of both locating pins. These will definitely get cleaned up and lubricated before being put back together! Though hopefully the trans won't have to come off again for a very long time.







Victory!

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	trans01.jpg
Views:	1257
Size:	152.6 KB
ID:	22041   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans02.jpg
Views:	1253
Size:	144.6 KB
ID:	22042   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans03.jpg
Views:	1264
Size:	130.2 KB
ID:	22043   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans04.jpg
Views:	1284
Size:	150.7 KB
ID:	22044  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
Xist (12-09-2020)
Old 06-21-2017, 02:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,534

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 57.73 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,082
Thanked 6,979 Times in 3,614 Posts
Hey, glad it finally came apart. No mystery bolts, even!

Just every wrencher's best friend: corrosion.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 02:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
Alright, thus begins the repair work on the trans.





First off I attacked the big plug on the end. The impact was starting to deform the square in the plug, so I hit it with the torch for about 30 seconds, and it came right out.





Inside, you'll find a retaining ring. This ring must be spread so the bearing can come out of the case.





A snap ring pliers works well and is what I used along with some tape to hold it. The retaining ring must be held spread open as you pull the case off, so you'll need some help or something to hold it open.





Next up was to remove all the bolts holding the transmission case to the bell housing.





While working your way around the case, you'll come to this bolt. The shifting mechanism must come out to get it out. Remove the bolts and pull it out.





Finally, you'll need to remove the ball detents before pulling the case off. These come out pretty easy, but be careful of the steel balls on the ends. On mine, I used a magnet to pull them out.







With those things done, the case should be ready to come apart. There is a nice spot for prying by the clutch arm. Some fiddling around with that retaining ring may be necessary.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	trans05.jpg
Views:	1261
Size:	155.9 KB
ID:	22055   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans06.jpg
Views:	1192
Size:	116.5 KB
ID:	22056   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans07.jpg
Views:	1244
Size:	123.2 KB
ID:	22057   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans08.jpg
Views:	1263
Size:	143.7 KB
ID:	22058   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans09.jpg
Views:	1221
Size:	130.0 KB
ID:	22059  

Click image for larger version

Name:	trans10.jpg
Views:	1218
Size:	135.6 KB
ID:	22060   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans11.jpg
Views:	1232
Size:	162.6 KB
ID:	22061   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans12.jpg
Views:	1224
Size:	113.0 KB
ID:	22062   Click image for larger version

Name:	trans13.jpg
Views:	1223
Size:	156.2 KB
ID:	22063  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (06-22-2017), Xist (12-09-2020)
Old 06-22-2017, 08:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,174 Times in 1,470 Posts
Wonderful pictures. I love the heating of the case plug to loosen it. I want to take apart my extra transmission, my old 1998 DX one, but I have just too many projects ahead of it in urgency.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 10:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
Thanks. I actually started heating the plug, saw a good photo opportunity and got out the camera.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2017, 09:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
Alright, I finally got the case off the bellhousing. This was a bit of a pain. I thought I could get away doing it as shown above, but it would NOT come off. I pulled, I pryed, I banged with a hammer (lightly), I pulled more all to no avail. Over the weekend, I asked my wife to help. She lifted while I giggled the snap ring pliers around and it finally started to budge a little bit, then a little more and it finally slid off. So, if you're having issues, just get a second pair of hands to help out.







Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170707_180032422.jpg
Views:	1230
Size:	71.3 KB
ID:	22162   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170707_180054719.jpg
Views:	1205
Size:	66.1 KB
ID:	22163   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170707_180130159.jpg
Views:	1211
Size:	70.3 KB
ID:	22164   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170707_180216690.jpg
Views:	1237
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	22165  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
Xist (12-09-2020)
Old 07-24-2017, 05:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Wonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 674

The Fruit Bat - '01 Honda Insight
Last 3: 54.26 mpg (US)

Current - '21 Subaru Impreza Wagon
90 day: 34.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 40
Thanked 39 Times in 27 Posts
Oh wow, very fortuitous that I'm looking into solving the same problem now or soon too! My 2nd gear grind started worsening just recently Once you figure it out, do you wanna help me do another? Need any help in exchange for future help? At the very least I'll have this great guide to reference - thanks for documenting.

I too may have issues with the cat studs, but everything else on mine generally looks clean(er than yours).
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 09:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
I will be more willing to answer that question AFTER I finish, haha. So far it hasn't been too bad to do though. Taking the gearing off the shaft does have me a bit anxious though as I've never done it before.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,588 Times in 1,555 Posts
Woohoo, I'm back on this project. I had a few interruptions like my EV riding mower battery acid leaking into the motor which created the need to rebuild it, and some house stuff. Is good to be back working on the Insight though as I'd like to get it back on the road shifting smooth.

So, last night I got to modifying the gear synchros. The process is pretty easy really, but I'll try to go through it step by step. I used this guide on Insight Central to help me out as well as the service manual. It is really easy to get parts turned around and the service manual indicates anything that needs to be put on in a specific direction.

Step one was to remove the shifter mechanism. Four 10mm bolts to the bellhousing will free it. Its the bracket on the right. The one on the left with just two bolts I didn't touch.





With that free, you can lift the shafts out of the bellhousing. You'll also want to pull out the reverse gear. From left to right we have the counter shaft, then the reverse gear, and then the input shaft. The one we'll be dealing with to fix the 2nd gear synchro grind is the counter shaft.





While pulling the shafts out, some of the rollers came out of the counter shaft bearing. No worries here, I grabbed a needle nose pliers, and pushed them back into place. They loosely snap back into place.





Here is what you're bellhousing will look like now. The differential is the only gearing left in the bellhousing.





I went ahead and removed it to get at the magnet in the trans. This collects any ferrous debris in the trans and keeps it out of the gears and bearings. As you can see, there is a decent amount of buildup on it. It just gets cleaned up and reinstalled.







Alright, back to the counter shaft. First, we have to remove the nut on the end of the shaft. Its similar to the axle nuts where you have to pound out the bend end so it can be unscrewed.





NOTE: this nut is reverse threaded. I put the shaft in my vise with a thick rag around it so the gear teeth wouldn't be damaged. This didn't work great, but it did work. I'd recommend wood like the service manual says. I ended up using 30mm socket (which felt a bit loose), and my 18V Makita impact driver to get the nut off.





With the nut off, you can start removing the gears from the shaft. Some are fairly lightly press fit on, while others are slip fit. The IC guide says to drop the shaft repeatedly on a wooden block to get the gears to come off. For me, this worked to a point, but then things stopped moving. So, I got out this big gear puller that I have. I made sure I was pulling against the hub of the gearing, not the teeth (thats where the big part of the puller comes in). This worked quite nicely.







With the first few press fit pieces off, there was only one very lightly press piece to go. I dropped the shaft threads down on a 2x4 on the concrete floor and it popped off nicely along with the rest of the gearing. Here is a shot of everything laid out.





If you pull out the synchro (left), you'll notice it has a few pieces to it. This shows most of them.





There is also a metal ring (spring) that goes on the right piece. Its not shown because I didn't notice it was even there until later. The piece on the right is the one we will be modifying.





Upon closer inspection, you can see what is happening here. There is a groove starting to be worn in the piece. This isn't nearly as bad as the one in the guide on IC.





Here is how things fit back together.





The solution to this problem is to simply grind the tabs off of the piece. I did this with a dremel and a course sanding bit on it. It makes pretty quick work of the brass with only short stints to cool the part off so you can hold it.







You'll need to rinse and repeat this for the other synchro set on the other side of the selector.





After that side is done, you can start putting everything back together. Even though I was trying to be quite careful with everything, its really easy to get something turned around. This is where the service manual really comes in handy. I'll post a picture of it and put it in this post for reference.



Here is one example, this part has those slots on the top face all the way through it on the bottom, but only most of the way through it on the top. This is referenced in the manual.





Once you get to this step in the assembly process (first gear with the long sleeve), you'll need to start pounding parts on. For this, I used a 1.5" exhaust pipe which I had laying around. All the parts in the trans that are steel are hardened, so using a mild steel pipe to pound them on is just fine. I used a shot filled rubber mallet to pound it on as well. A regular hammer would be fine too I'm sure, but it'll mar up the pipe for sure.







Next, continue putting pieces on one by one. The bearings are the toughest to get aligned. Make sure you pound them on by the inner race (the inner ring of the bearing), not the outer as that'll ruin them. For this, I ended up using a deep well socket.





Finally, put the bellville washer on. It should be oriented so the flared side is toward the bearing. Now, spin that REVERSE THREADED nut on again back to where the paint mark lines up with the key slot cut in the shaft. No need to torque it to the correct value. You can bash the nut back down to keep it in place.





Wow, this turned out to be a super long post! I'll continue as I do the input shaft bearing and seals later this week.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_171920756.jpg
Views:	1191
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	22275   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_172525709.jpg
Views:	1120
Size:	59.0 KB
ID:	22276   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_172551073.jpg
Views:	1144
Size:	54.2 KB
ID:	22277   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_172542151.jpg
Views:	1121
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	22278   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_172824236.jpg
Views:	1143
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	22279  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_182539891.jpg
Views:	1130
Size:	59.8 KB
ID:	22280   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_183305933_HDR.jpg
Views:	1123
Size:	38.5 KB
ID:	22281   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_195736414.jpg
Views:	1144
Size:	33.9 KB
ID:	22282   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_184112123.jpg
Views:	1168
Size:	38.5 KB
ID:	22283   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_184348065.jpg
Views:	1143
Size:	34.5 KB
ID:	22284  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_193543332.jpg
Views:	1161
Size:	63.9 KB
ID:	22285   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_184814053.jpg
Views:	1137
Size:	39.3 KB
ID:	22286   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_184855180.jpg
Views:	1143
Size:	37.7 KB
ID:	22287   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_184936814.jpg
Views:	1140
Size:	54.1 KB
ID:	22288   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_185110419.jpg
Views:	1115
Size:	45.8 KB
ID:	22289  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_190740744.jpg
Views:	1140
Size:	47.9 KB
ID:	22290   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_190747232.jpg
Views:	1150
Size:	29.6 KB
ID:	22291   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_191010800.jpg
Views:	1149
Size:	46.6 KB
ID:	22292   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_194152860_HDR.jpg
Views:	1131
Size:	52.1 KB
ID:	22293   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_194509910_HDR.jpg
Views:	1118
Size:	40.7 KB
ID:	22294  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_194526011.jpg
Views:	1131
Size:	40.1 KB
ID:	22295   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170801_195538225.jpg
Views:	1120
Size:	37.9 KB
ID:	22296  
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Daox For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (08-03-2017), MetroMPG (08-03-2017), Xist (12-09-2020)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com