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Old 04-15-2008, 08:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Smile Are 4 wheel drive passenger vehicles wasting precious resources?

We have the best roads in history.
Can anyone explain to me why we need 4 wheel drive passenger vehicles? I have one, an F150 it stays on the grounds, it is not licensed. It pulls wagons when the ground is dry. When the ground is wet it's useless. I use it for mobile storage.

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Old 04-15-2008, 09:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Yes in about 90% of the cases.
Its amazing that the automakers and thier marketing people have managed to convince the public that they need 4x4 when really 10% of trucks do. I saw a Ford document a few years ago and it stated that for the following years sales they planned to raise 4x4 share of thier truck line to 75% (top of my head memory).

Side note, I hate marketing.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman View Post

Side note, I hate marketing.
Meh, poor marketing suppresses great ideas. Sure, someone can use it for an evil of sorts, but that doesn't make marketing bad - just the marketer.

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We have the best roads in history.
Can anyone explain to me why we need 4 wheel drive passenger vehicles? I have one, an F150 it stays on the grounds, it is not licensed. It pulls wagons when the ground is dry. When the ground is wet it's useless. I use it for mobile storage.
I agree with the sentiment. But before anyone starts reaming about their farm or whatever - I'm first going to point out that this is a general case. To put it in more simple terms - if everyone drove around in farm tractors - it'd be more clear that Mrs. Jane Doe on suburbia street doesn't need one

What bothers me the most is when people think their car can stop better with 4wd :/
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trebuchet03 View Post
Meh, poor marketing suppresses great ideas. Sure, someone can use it for an evil of sorts, but that doesn't make marketing bad - just the marketer.
Iíve inferred from your other posts that your either an engineer or a student of it, so I would have thought you would not like it either?

Marketing is the art of convincing people to buy inferior products or to pay more for them if they were going to buy them anyway as opposed to buying goods on their technical merits. I prefer efficiency myself over hype.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Iíve inferred from your other posts that your either an engineer or a student of it, so I would have thought you would not like it either?

Marketing is the art of convincing people to buy inferior products or to pay more for them if they were going to buy them anyway as opposed to buying goods on their technical merits. I prefer efficiency myself over hype.
Student... For too long I'm not looking to be the monkey when I graduate though - perhaps this is why I've got no problems with the general term marketing - it's going to be necessary for future business. I mean, how far will anything I make go if I can't even make a company or tell anyone about it?

My attitude is, if you're looking for dog crap in the grass - you're going to be successful at only seeing crap. You can't smell the roses while looking for poo... and all that corny stuff.

Marketing is not the art of convincing people to buy inferior products. That's the work of a charlatan. For all the work SVO and MetroMPG do marketing this website - I'd hate to think we're all here for inferior reasons.

Marketing is not limited to the sale - your experience may be with those targeting sales, but that's not the entire scope.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Can anyone explain to me why we need 4 wheel drive passenger vehicles?
Most truly don't. That said, AWD handles better than FWD or RWD, even on perfectly dry roads. With some vehicles there is none or little rated difference in mileage although it's obvious there has to be some type of penalty given that you're tacking on several hundred pounds of additional metal and fluids.

Just having a 4th tire on a vehicle is wasteful. With a single rear wheel and drive going to that wheel, a differential isn't needed.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think were talking about 4wd as in trucks and suv's, but correct me if I am wrong. Yes, I absolutely HATE people that drive around in big 4x4's when of course, theres absolutely NO need for it. You know, the stereotypical lifted 80s chevy pickup with huge mudders and hacked off exhaust (or worse, echo cans). Rusted to pieces, NRA stickers, dead deer in the bed. They pass you when you're being careful on a snow-covered road in the winter. Not pass, but fly past you. Half the time you see someone off the road its one of these guys.

They also complain about gas prices.

Can you tell I dont like these kinds of people?
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trebuchet03 View Post
Marketing is not the art of convincing people to buy inferior products. That's the work of a charlatan. For all the work SVO and MetroMPG do marketing this website - I'd hate to think we're all here for inferior reasons.

Marketing is not limited to the sale - your experience may be with those targeting sales, but that's not the entire scope.
I think kind of the opposite. I think those that are selling are doing just that, they are selling and there is nothing wrong with that. If you have a good product people will buy it because they need it and it is a good product.

I don’t need a commercial for laundry detergent to tell me I need it. When I go to the grocery store and go down that isle, I buy the stuff because I see it there and I realize I need to wash my clothes.

Next time you see a car commercial, look and see if they talk about HP, fuel economy, headroom, legroom, trunk volume… or are they just putting up images of car racing around a corner of hearing an engine revving under load. There are countless examples of this but the beer industry is the best example and the worst offender. Beer should be bought purely on taste and price, when was the last time you seen them advertise about either of these qualities, they only promote an image. That is marketing, promoting an image, it has nothing to do promoting the merits of your product.

Take a $5 tee shirt and put a Nike swoosh logo on it and bam, its quadrupled in value. That’s due to marketing because its still the same shirt, and that is why I think that marketing is about promoting inferior products or getting people to pay more for them than what there worth.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:26 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm sure up in Ontario, there are days when you need it. Northern climates, higher altitudes.

Front wheel drive is safer for the hotdogs, they can't get in as much trouble.

Why isn't the front driven in two wheel drive, and the back idling. Only a few do this.

Marketing departments that are separate from R & D and Production tend to be like the tail wagging the dog. Marketing as a subset of other depts. has worked.

Marketing could make the world a better place.
However, we find this instead:
coupons,
cash back,
rebate,
sale,
50% off,
offer good until 04-14-08,
only $20 a month for the first year,
30 day free trial,
no interest until 2009,
(translation-dear consumer we think you are an idiot)

Oh here's a good one, tell us you made $3000 off the books and we'll give you a tax rebate.
We'll tell you the latest breaking news after the commerial. (sorry your gone, click)
Buy now, use the equity in you house
What other as-sin-nine things have you heard?

The total wasted resources is enormous...

Last edited by diesel_john; 04-16-2008 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm sure up in Ontario, there are days when you need it. Northern climates, higher altitudes.
There’s that word "Need" that I see so many people use when they say they want 4x4. Where I live we have snow and ice on the ground for 5 months of the year. I've never had a 4x4 and have no plans to get one in the future. Admittedly in the west we don’t get the same volume of snow as in the east, I find there are 2-3 days a year where 4x4 would be nice to have, but I get by. This has been with some rather nose heavy RWD vehicles as well.

I think the real need is for people that do work off road such as farmers, surveyors, construction workers etc.


Last edited by Duffman; 04-16-2008 at 01:56 AM..
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