80-100mpge with Mercedes 300D Veggie/WVO Single Tank

[alohaspirit]

got 22mpg the other day

it really depends on what type of driving i do

[alohaspirit]

5 gal WVO + 1 gal of Diesel = 133 MPGe

or 22.17 mpg



ive used 60 gallons of veggie oil so far

total saving based off current diesel price of $4.30

$258

[tjts1]

Your claim of 80-100mpg puts a lot of people off. Its a straight lie and you know it. You can try to justify it any way you want to but the fact remains that you're only getting 22mpg. Whether that fuel comes from a diesel pump or a restaurant is irrelevant. The long term costs of running SVO far outweigh any savings at the diesel pump. I hope you enjoy rebuilding the injection pump, injectors, replacement fuel filters, clogged fuel lines, combustion chamber deposits etc. Its not a matter of if but WHEN it will leave you on the side of the road with a huge repair bill.

Guess which injector has been running on single tank WVO?


More WVO fun


And while we're at it, you should read this.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=186108

[alohaspirit]

Originally Posted by tjts1

wall of text

lol, you sure do make a lot of negative posts

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Your claim of 80-100mpg puts a lot of people off. Its a straight lie and you know it. You can try to justify it any way you want to but the fact remains that you're only getting 22mpg. Whether that fuel comes from a diesel pump or a restaurant is irrelevant. The long term costs of running SVO far outweigh any savings at the diesel pump. I hope you enjoy rebuilding the injection pump, injectors, replacement fuel filters, clogged fuel lines, combustion chamber deposits etc. Its not a matter of if but WHEN it will leave you on the side of the road with a huge repair bill.

I would challenge your claim that using WVO WILL cause failure of components. It would be better said that poorly conceived and executed WVO systems can cause component failure. Choosing the right vehicle is the most important step. Inline injection pumps as found in early Mercedes are an advantage. Proper filtration, heating and vehicle maintenance will provide you with an economical and reliable mode of transport.

There is of course an investment in equipment and time. But depending on your driving needs, the payback can be tremendous.

I drive considerably more than most people. I travel between San Diego and the Palm Springs area two to three times a week. I burned through almost 800 gallons of WVO in my 1985 190D 5 speed manual Mercedes, non-turbo last year. Diesel hovers around $4 dollars a gallon here. Do the math. I did. That old beater of a car paid for my family vacation to the Caribbean this past summer.

I bought the car for 700 dollars years ago - rescued from the insurance auction when it was rear-ended at 70K miles. It has been running on WVO ever since. It now has traveled approximately 650k miles. Fuel filters are changed along with my oil change. Glow plugs and injectors are changed/rebuilt every two years. Nothing untoward. Mild water/methanol injection keeps the pre-chambers and injectors clean.

The WVO is settled, filtered to 20 microns then centrifuged in an industrial centrifuge which cost me about 1000 dollars years ago. About 10% by volume of regular unleaded gasoline and diesel is blended in to provide fluidity and to pay my share of the road taxes.

This car represents only 1 of 4 Mercedes diesels in my immediate family that run on our sources of WVO though not to the mileage of the 190D.

Is WVO effective for everyone? No. But it is a winning source of Bio Crude for me to run my Benz on.

[Joeggernaut]

Can someone please explain to me how he is able to acheive that big of a difference in mpg with WVO compared to regular diesel when WVO has less energy density than diesel? The science just doesn't match his claim.

Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is he factoring that he only used 3 gallons of store diesel into his mpg calculation?

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

I would challenge your claim that using WVO WILL cause failure of components. It would be better said that poorly conceived and executed WVO systems can cause component failure. Choosing the right vehicle is the most important step. Inline injection pumps as found in early Mercedes are an advantage. Proper filtration, heating and vehicle maintenance will provide you with an economical and reliable mode of transport.

I agree, theres a big difference between what he's doing and a proper WVO or biodiesel setup. Single tank WVO where he's not factoring in any other costs is the definition of a poorly conceived and executed system. Simply heating and filtering fuel is not enough and he knows it. I guess some people only learn the hard way.

I've gone through the same process you describe and one step further to create real biodiesel through transesterification. It was a fun project and the car ran fine on it but its not worth it for me to produce in small batches. For other it is and I'm all for that. Good quality bio diesel can actually increase the life of the injection pump and injectors.

Originally Posted by Joeggernaut

Can someone please explain to me how he is able to acheive that big of a difference in mpg with WVO compared to regular diesel when WVO has less energy density than diesel? The science just doesn't match his claim.

Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is he factoring that he only used 3 gallons of store diesel into his mpg calculation?

He's pretending WVO is magical free fuel so he's not counting those gallons into his calculation.

I can see why this is so tempting especially in Hawaii where diesel fuel is about $1 more per gallon than gasoline. But the long term costs of running single tank WVO far outweigh any savings.

[alohaspirit]

Originally Posted by Joeggernaut

Can someone please explain to me how he is able to acheive that big of a difference in mpg with WVO compared to regular diesel when WVO has less energy density than diesel? The science just doesn't match his claim.

Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is he factoring that he only used 3 gallons of store diesel into his mpg calculation?

you should read the whole thread

i clearly differentiate MPG and MPGe



i get my oil for FREE and it is properly filtered and dewatered to 1 micron

that goes into an on board fuel system which has 2 more filters and 2 heating elements
(not counting the 3rd filter in the tank and the 3rd heating element being the engine)

Hawaii also rarely gets colder than 70F

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Joeggernaut

Can someone please explain to me how he is able to acheive that big of a difference in mpg with WVO compared to regular diesel when WVO has less energy density than diesel? The science just doesn't match his claim.

Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is he factoring that he only used 3 gallons of store diesel into his mpg calculation?

22mpg from 5 gallons WVO with one gallon of diesel mixed in sounds reasonable to me. Alohaspirit may not have been exact in stating his assumptions, but it looks like you are making some that are not justified. He is not making unreasonable mileage claims, but perhaps only a misunderstanding in MPGe.

The indirect injection of the OM616/OM617 is quite robust. It operates at low pressure, can deal with highly viscous fuel, and due to the prechamber has very few issues with partially combusted fuel getting into the rings. With diligent oil changes, this engine is head and shoulders above modern direct injection engines with regard to fuel tolerance, and is extremely easy and inexpensive to service as a result.

VO is an excellent choice for a Hawaiian W123, it loves the VO, the climate is perfect and biodiesel ingredients are more expensive than elsewhere in the US.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by tjts1

I agree, theres a big difference between what he's doing and a proper WVO or biodiesel setup. Single tank WVO where he's not factoring in any other costs is the definition of a poorly conceived and executed system. Simply heating and filtering fuel is not enough and he knows it. I guess some people only learn the hard way.

I've gone through the same process you describe and one step further to create real biodiesel through transesterification. It was a fun project and the car ran fine on it but its not worth it for me to produce in small batches. For other it is and I'm all for that. Good quality bio diesel can actually increase the life of the injection pump and injectors.

He's pretending WVO is magical free fuel so he's not counting those gallons into his calculation.

I can see why this is so tempting especially in Hawaii where diesel fuel is about $1 more per gallon than gasoline. But the long term costs of running single tank WVO far outweigh any savings.

It boils down to so many factors. My 190D is an extreme example of WVO performing for long periods of time (580k miles) because of its inherent robust design, my choice of oil sources and fastidious cleaning and a custom electric/fluid heating system. The water injection helps too. All on a single tank system.

But this vehicle is used between a semi tropical coastal city and a desert city - no snow days.

And I was not referring to AlohaSpirit as an example of inept WVO application - the TDI owner in the link above was. Again, choose a diesel with an inline pump as the basis for your WVO setup. Other pumps can run WVO but the margin for error is small. Know the limits of your oil stock and the weather conditions you operate in. Design your fuel system to work accordingly.

And if AlohaSpirit wants to calculate his mileage as he does, so be it. Chevy gets to set the Volts mileage based on only the gasoline it uses in a time period. Cost per mile is a good analysis reference.

Again, WVO is not for everybody. But it is an economical advantage for me. And it can be an educational experience for others negating the disadvantages via the fun factor.