Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2016, 04:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 10,960
Thanks: 2,479
Thanked 3,488 Times in 2,760 Posts
Thanks for writing that up. All that (and that result) for $4000? How much for the shop space and tools to make it happen?

This is my favorite generation of station wagons (esp. the Vista Cruisers), after the 4-door hardtops in the 60s



I may have missed anything you said about the hitch. Did it come stock? Receiver or not? I ask because there are a lot of ecomodders who are interested in hitches and hitch accessories.

Like receiver mounted boat tail boxes. Is the lower gate side-hinged? Have you considered a collapsible boat tail hung on that?

I run 50-series front tires myself; but the trend seems to be taller and narrower with the same contact patch (BMW i3).

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-17-2016, 04:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 10,575

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 39.62 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
90 day: 41.67 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,994
Thanked 2,139 Times in 1,302 Posts
Very impressive! Gotta love tall gearing.
__________________
Current project: Heating the manual trans with engine coolant
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2016, 04:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Henry, VA
Posts: 30

The Little Car - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 86.19 mpg (US)

The Big Car - '94 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon
90 day: 44.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 51 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Thanks for writing that up. All that (and that result) for $4000? How much for the shop space and tools to make it happen?
Shop?! What "shop"? I did the trans and axle swaps on our uncovered concrete patio.

Okay--so there were some implied costs. The point I'm trying to make, though, is that I did this build on a very limited budget. In many cases, parts that I was able to sell from the car helped the overall cost. For example, I sold the stock "wire" wheel covers on eBay--for $239! (Two guys got into a bidding war). I also won't be surprised if I sell the 4L60E automatic for more than I spent on the entire manual swap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I may have missed anything you said about the hitch. Did it come stock? Receiver or not? I ask because there are a lot of ecomodders who are interested in hitches and hitch accessories.

Like receiver mounted boat tail boxes. Is the lower gate side-hinged? Have you considered a collapsible boat tail hung on that?
These cars did not come from the factory with a hitch, and the aftermarket wagon hitches have been out of production for several years (sedan hitches are still available). My hitch is a Reese class III/IV receiver hitch that I picked up used (3,500 WC/10,000 WD).

I've thought about a boat tail, but that would interfere with the two main jobs for which we bought it: carpooling and towing. If we're just driving around as a family, we'll take the Metro.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to funkhoss For This Useful Post:
freebeard (06-18-2016), niky (07-12-2016)
Old 06-18-2016, 01:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 10,960
Thanks: 2,479
Thanked 3,488 Times in 2,760 Posts
General towing ability, or a specific rig?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post466804

How much of your trailering needs could be met with a single-wheel foamie teardrop? Because that's where the next 0.10 reduction in Cd is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2016, 10:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Henry, VA
Posts: 30

The Little Car - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 86.19 mpg (US)

The Big Car - '94 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon
90 day: 44.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 51 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
General towing ability, or a specific rig?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post466804

How much of your trailering needs could be met with a single-wheel foamie teardrop? Because that's where the next 0.10 reduction in Cd is.
A teardrop trailer would be really cool. Maybe when I get around to making a woodgas generator for it I'll put it in one of those...

Right now, we have a pretty heavy 6x12 tilt-bed trailer that we use to haul our garden tractor, firewood, hay/straw bales, sand/lime, etc.

In the future, we'd like to do some small farming, and have the ability to tow a livestock trailer, dump trailer, flatbed equipment trailer, or the like.

One of my goals in undertaking this project is to prove that you can have a very sturdy tow vehicle that is also very efficient.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to funkhoss For This Useful Post:
freebeard (06-18-2016), LioNiNoiL (07-22-2016), mcrews (06-20-2016)
Old 06-20-2016, 02:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Big Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Steppes of Central Indiana
Posts: 1,291

The Red Baron - '00 Ford F-350 XLT
90 day: 27.99 mpg (US)

Impala Phase Zero - '96 Chevrolet Impala SS
90 day: 21.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 175 Times in 119 Posts
Excellent work! You've pretty much thrown the kitchen sink at it and are getting better than double the stock MPG.

This vehicle shows that to get the really big numbers you have to do both aero and mechanical mods.

How much trailer towing do you do? Most people do a lot less than they think. Changing axles is going to get to be a pain going forward. I'd just run in the lower gears when towing than to change axles.

Short of changing to a diesel engine (a 6.5 NA fits a B-Body) or converting the CNG and jacking up your compression sky-high, I really don't see much in the way of big improvements to MPG left.
__________________
2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 02:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Big Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Steppes of Central Indiana
Posts: 1,291

The Red Baron - '00 Ford F-350 XLT
90 day: 27.99 mpg (US)

Impala Phase Zero - '96 Chevrolet Impala SS
90 day: 21.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 175 Times in 119 Posts
Excellent work! You've pretty much thrown the kitchen sink at it and are getting better than double the stock MPG.

This vehicle shows that to get the really big numbers you have to do both aero and mechanical mods.

How much trailer towing do you do? Most people do a lot less than they think. Changing axles is going to get to be a pain going forward. I'd just run in the lower gears when towing than to change axles.

Short of changing to a diesel engine (a 6.5 NA fits a B-Body) or converting the CNG and jacking up your compression sky-high, I really don't see much in the way of big improvements to MPG left.
__________________
2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 10:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Henry, VA
Posts: 30

The Little Car - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 86.19 mpg (US)

The Big Car - '94 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon
90 day: 44.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 7
Thanked 51 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
This vehicle shows that to get the really big numbers you have to do both aero and mechanical mods.
Yes. Though that's dependent somewhat on the car in question. Our Metro, for example, has only had a final drive gearing swap and a camshaft swap. Everything else was aero (besides the kill switch). But the Metro was more efficient to begin with.

I think it's also important to note that, though we've done a lot to the wagon, nothing we have done is groundbreaking, or radical, or cutting edge. Every mod is pretty much a standard, accepted economy improver. No single one of these mods by itself will get you to 100% over EPA--but taken together, they do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
How much trailer towing do you do? Most people do a lot less than they think. Changing axles is going to get to be a pain going forward. I'd just run in the lower gears when towing than to change axles.
I've thought about that. I think that I will plan in advance to do several projects involving the trailer at once--so that I can swap the towing axle in, leave it in for a week or two while I do a bunch of projects, and then swap it back out. That way I won't have to go back and forth as much.

I have two concerns with trying to tow with the 2.14's. First, I'm concerned that I won't have enough gear to get going in some situations (regardless of how much I slip/burn the clutch). We live in a part of Virginia where there are a lot of hills, and I really don't want to get stopped at a light on a hill somewhere and not be able to get going again. Second, I'm concerned about how much stress/wear the NV3500 will get if I try to tow any significant amount of weight with the 2.14's. It's already in a heavier vehicle, with a stronger engine than it had from the factory. I don't want to have to take it out again any time soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
Short of changing to a diesel engine (a 6.5 NA fits a B-Body) or converting the CNG and jacking up your compression sky-high, I really don't see much in the way of big improvements to MPG left.
I think you're right--the biggest thing from here on will be getting used to how the car works with the manual transmission and making improvements through technique. I'd like to get a tank over 50 at least once.
__________________




Last edited by funkhoss; 06-20-2016 at 11:06 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 11:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
101Volts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 466

Grandpa's Caprice (retired) - '84 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
90 day: 20.24 mpg (US)

Comfy Woody Wagon - '90 Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon LS
90 day: 14.13 mpg (US)

Suburban 6.5 T.D. - '99 Chevrolet K2500 Suburban LS
Last 3: 12.94 mpg (US)

Hi-Ho Impala, Away! - '01 Chevrolet Impala Base
90 day: 21.57 mpg (US)
Thanks: 816
Thanked 30 Times in 24 Posts
I saw your initial posts on here when you first started and was wondering how you were doing. Holy amazing, this is what I wanted to do but never really did with a Wagon since I saw your posts. I knew the 1991-1996 G.M whales were already pretty aerodynamic for Wagons but here you've up and done all of this. Speaking for a Diesel conversion, putting a 6.2 in one of these isn't unheard of. I'm not sure what's in this car though:



If you switch to Diesel and put in a smaller fuel tank though, really... MPGs will be going into the stratosphere...
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 05:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,234

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,415
Thanked 3,057 Times in 1,949 Posts
Mass is great for glides.

Back in the day I used to see how far I could shut down from 55 mph and coast and still make it home. I pretty much came to know the exact spot where I would just make it in my '74 Nova. Tried the same spot in my '78 Corolla- no way, fell way short. Same today with the Metro. I should try it with the '59 Bel Air- that Baby has ball bearings throughout! And four-wheel drums. Give the front wheels a spin when the car is jacked up and they go forever.

__________________


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com