For the 96% efficient types.....

[tasdrouille]

Suspect,

They are scammers. They sell magnets with their kits...

The sooner they get nailed, cause they will, the better.

[suspectnumber961]

Even if they could only manage a 50% mpg gain with ONE VEHICLE and this could be verified...and it could be done without reducing the reliability and driveability....THEN this would prove the point.

So what happens when fuel management systems are designed from scratch to work with these kinds of add on systems?

US auto companies are on life support because they built more Hummers than fuel efficient cars. You can't use idiots as examples of anything.

As a "suspect"...I suspect people are going to be surprised how fast things change now that some fairly rational adults (not the military, "defense" and oil companies?) are in charge politically in the US.

All I can say is...stay tuned....more to come.

[dremd]

Also please do tell us about the 96% in the thread title.

[Andyman]

It looks like the 96% refers to the estimated fraction of the gasoline that is burned in the engine and exhaust system. I doubt that most of it burns in the catalytic converter but I agree that speeding up combustion so a higher percentage of the fuel burns in the engine will help improve engine efficiency. That is what hydrogen added to the fuel mixture is intended to do. I can't say how effective it is. I have seen an engine running without an exhaust manifold and it was blowing out flames from the exhaust ports. That shows that some of the fuel burns after it leaves the engine.

The whole title seems to imply that the post was intended for people who believe that an engine or a vehicle is 96% efficient. Most car engines have less than 30% efficiency even at their most efficient speed and load. Only a fraction of the heat generated from the fuel is turned into mechanical work. The rest is released, mainly from the radiator and the exhaust pipe.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Andyman

I have seen an engine running without an exhaust manifold and it was blowing out flames from the exhaust ports.

Ever seen a rocket launch?

[MetroMPG]

This reminder, from a credible source:

In fact, any modern engine in good condition and at normal operating temperature emits only about 1 - 2% of the input fuel as unburnt hydrocarbons, even before passing through the catalyst. I have studied test data for literally hundreds of engines over the past 10 years and this is absolutely consistant for all engine types. Only engines that are very old (say more than 50 years) or in serious need of maintenance/adjustment would waste anything like 15 - 20% of their fuel

Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view

(I post this in response to the comment earlier in this thread that a significant amount of fuel is burned in the cat.)

[shovel]

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about the validity of the claims from this system, but I think it's valuable to point out that automobile manufacturers won't be putting into cars, systems which require another fluid/fuel/substance to be added.

Typical motorists already seem to have a hard time performing standard fluid changes on the stuff that's been in cars since day one, I'd wager that the average non-gearhead driver doubles the recommended service interval for oil changes, if not worse. And forget about ever flushing brake or power steering fluid... ever. Diff or manual trans oil? Never!

They wouldn't pour distilled water into a hydrogen generator.... they'd dump tap water in or dump in nothing at all.

[Frank Lee]

I mostly agree with you shovel but there are diesel emission systems that require urea refills.

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961

Even if they could only manage a 50% mpg gain with ONE VEHICLE and this could be verified..

If they could do that then they wouldn't be subject to a criminal investigation.

Edit: If they could only manage a 5% improvement they wouldn't be under a criminal investigation either.

[markweatherill]

It's possible for an engine to be 96% efficient at using up its fuel, but only about 30% efficient at turning that fuel into useful work. The two figures are not the same thing, which is a huge mental hurdle to some! And the latter figure is never going to approach the former. That is, some of the work done in producing the engine's output will always go towards cooling, overcoming friction, that kind of thing.