Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Instrumentation
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-07-2013, 03:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
So why don't you share the diagram? ;-)

__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-07-2013, 03:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 7,566
Thanks: 0
Thanked 786 Times in 695 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbeaver View Post
In a Mercedes OM 603 engine, there is a EDS control unit that is supposed to control the amount of diesel to be inyected by injection pump.
If it was compliant with OBD-2, might work with MPGuino and other similar devices
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 06:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
UFO
Master EcoModder
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,300

Colorado - '17 Chevrolet Colorado 4x4 LT
90 day: 23.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 177 Times in 137 Posts
I use a scangauge II. It becomes way off (from 2 to 15 mpg wrong over a tank) if I implement my EGR delete, go on a road trip, change biodiesel concentration, or make any significant change in driving technique.

Fortunately, I can calibrate it for B100, no EGR, and with my driving techniques fairly settled it is a useful tool for monitoring my daily commute over a tank, including some non-commuting driving over the weekends. I can make seasonable adjustments to maintain reasonable accuracy from spring to fall with B100 fuel.

Yeah, it'd be nice to have real fuel flow measurement.
__________________
I'm not coasting, I'm shifting slowly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 07:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mercedes diesel Injection Diagram OM 603

Hello guys,

The Mercedes 300D turbo of 1993, on a W124 chassis, has the follwing Electronic Diesel Injection Diagram:


As you can see, there are six electric / electronic incoming signals to the injection control unit.

Can we take advantage of them to make a real time mileage monitor?

OldBeaver
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
Can't see the diagram
__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Can´t see the Diesel Injection Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrzejM View Post
Can't see the diagram
I couldn´t see it also, at first.

I found the way to allow it to be seen: see it below:

OldBeaver
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Electronic Diesel Injection OM603.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	136.5 KB
ID:	13189  
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993

Last edited by oldbeaver; 06-09-2013 at 04:01 PM.. Reason: Improving
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2013, 08:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Intercepting the signals in an old Mercedes Diesel

AndrzejM, OldBeaver (myself) and others are long time seeking how to use MPGuino in an old diesel, like a Mercedes from 1987 to 1995.

One of the signals to be used is VSS. One step forward would be to find an easy point in the car where one can intercept this signal in the cleanest and safest posible way.

As we talked with AndrzejM, the other signals has to be taken from the injection system. The question is how to get them easily, to conduct them to the cabin to be processed.

Maybe the test terminals may be useful for this purpose. At least, rpm can be taken there.

Does anyone know where to intercept the effector signals from the ECU, for example? I am talking about the physical spot in the car and the practical electronic way to do it. Not just the place in the EDS diagram.

OldBeaver
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993

Last edited by oldbeaver; 06-18-2013 at 08:42 PM.. Reason: Improving
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
I think the best way would be to hook up to the back side of ECU plug or plug connected to the injection pump. It will be easier to find the right cable connected to the second place. Fewer connections, that's for sure
__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2013, 07:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
EDS signals spot

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrzejM View Post
I think the best way would be to hook up to the back side of ECU plug or plug connected to the injection pump. It will be easier to find the right cable connected to the second place. Fewer connections, that's for sure
I agree. The ECU harness is more complicated. And I would prefer not to touch it.

EDS Inputs to this system are:

Voltage supply via OVP relay (K1) - overload protection relay I suppose
Engine speed via speed sensor (L3) - rpm?
Coolant temperature via sensor (B11/4)
IP control rod travel via sensor (L7) - rack position?
Air quantity via AFM (B2/1)
Manifold (boost) pressure via OVP relay (K1) - useful for real time fuel estimation?
Barometric pressure via sensor (B18)
Base circuit resistance via reference resistor (R18/2)
Resistance trim via ELR knob (R18/1) - regulable fix resistance I think

Outputs are:
Variable control voltage to the ELR actuator (Y22)
Voltage to VAC transducer (Y31) and on to the ARF valve (Y31/1)
Connection to test connector diagnostic block

Basicaly, the fuel injected is governed vía ELR actuator in the back side of the injection pump, where more voltage means more fuel and less voltage means less fuel. Very useful information.

To me is very clear that ELR controls fuel injected. You want to combine it with the rack position sensor signal. Question: Is it L7?

Second, I suppose this voltage controls VAC transducer (Y31) which is the effector for .... what? The turbo somehow?

I will try lo locate all this elements in the engine compartment next to the injection pump after I recover my car, hopefully tomorrow.

Comments, enlightments?

Oldbeaver
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993

Last edited by oldbeaver; 06-19-2013 at 07:50 PM.. Reason: Simplify
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2013, 03:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
AndrzejM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Poland
Posts: 840

Berta - '97 BMW 318 tds Compact
90 day: 62.03 mpg (US)

Charlie - '07 Citroen C4 Grand Picasso Exclusive
90 day: 37.58 mpg (US)

Corsa - '05 Opel Corsa C
90 day: 53.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 185
Thanked 167 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbeaver View Post
Basicaly, the fuel injected is governed vía ELR actuator in the back side of the injection pump, where more voltage means more fuel and less voltage means less fuel. Very useful information.

To me is very clear that ELR controls fuel injected. You want to combine it with the rack position sensor signal. Question: Is it L7?

Second, I suppose this voltage controls VAC transducer (Y31) which is the effector for .... what? The turbo somehow?
Your pump is controlled by two factors:
1. gas pedal linkage - it's setting up rack position - thus main fuel dosage
2. ELR signal - it's changing by some percentage fuel dose to meet value counted by ECU, based on all the sensors

So you have to know rack position adt its offset by ELR signal, then you have the exact fuel dose. Combining that with rpm signal you have the exact moments when you have to measure rack position and offset. Lets call that a trigger signal. And finally combining that with VSS signal will give you FE.

And the other question about Y31 - I presume that's a valve for EGR

__________________


Quote:
Gerhard Plattner: "The best attitude is to consider fuel saving a kind of sport. Everybody who has enough money for a strong car, can drive fast and hit the pedal. But saving fuel requires concentration, self-control and cleverness. It's a challenge with the nice effect of saving you money that you can use for other more important things."
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com