Aerodynamic baseline: Motorcycles.

[Grant-53]

The speed required in the Vetter challenges of the 1980's was 55 mph. Most 50cc scooters don't go near that fast stock. See motoIQ.com for modifications to the Aprilia SR50 and the Honda Ruckus that boost top speed up to 58 mph. Engine mods involve porting and planing to get more power plus a larger bore and piston. The mods to the drivetrain involve different gearing and a clutch designed for racing. The question becomes how much drag reduction is needed to meet the present speed levels. The groceries can be stored between the rider's feet. See the Aprilia based cargo bikes with storage in front of the rider.

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by alvaro84

Good question. I (being a hypermiler!!) can't even stomach racing tuck. An enclosed chassis is out of question too, because that's just another car. A car on two wheels, without a car's stability and carrying capacity.

A non-winter commuter car with superb FE...? That's good to have, but not for a new vehicle's price.

And the 'ideal' bike (for me) can provide good aero sitting upright, lets me look through my helmet's visor (not an additional windscreen), doesn't block the view in any direction, lets me help with my feet if needed, and even push the (not too heavy) bike. Is this possible at all...?

Yep, you can buy one of those right now, it's a standard moderately faired bike with a man on top causing huge amount of drag. There is no way around fuselage if you want decent fuel economy.

[alvaro84]

Thank goodness I have moderate frontal area I'm still in stupid shape in aerodynamic terms

Sendler's choice looks pretty good to me. Though I still don't know what kind of FE I could get with a CBR250 upright (okay, I can - and often do - tuck while gliding).

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by sendler

As long as you don't get dropped. You must be capable of running with 70 mph highway traffic into a 30 mph headwind.

That 30 mph headwind is a really ridiculous requirement IMHO, who the hell needs that !

[gil]

Originally Posted by PeterS

That 30 mph headwind is a really ridiculous requirement IMHO, who the hell needs that !

I need that. I have ridden my Honda helix up and down California. on a good dAY Its top speed is 72 mph, but once you encounter a slight headwind you are down to 64 mph or less. Headwinds are not the only problem, steep hills aren't fun either.


Gil

[sendler]

Originally Posted by PeterS

That 30 mph headwind is a really ridiculous requirement IMHO, who the hell needs that !

A 30 mph wind is a normal occurrence when you live on the west coast as Vetter does.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by alvaro84

Though I still don't know what kind of FE I could get with a CBR250 upright

Normal riders who are careful get 80 mpgUS , 34 km/liter on the CBR250R.

[alvaro84]

Originally Posted by sendler

Normal riders who are careful get 80 mpgUS , 34 km/liter on the CBR250R.

But I'd surely ride in a significantly different style than they do. I always get worse FE when I'm too 'careful'.

[PeterS]

Originally Posted by gil

I need that. I have ridden my Honda helix up and down California. on a good dAY Its top speed is 72 mph, but once you encounter a slight headwind you are down to 64 mph or less. Headwinds are not the only problem, steep hills aren't fun either.


Gil

OK, I'll rephrase .... I sure as hell don't need that!

[Frank Lee]

I know the road in Cali Vetter is concerned about. He wants to stay nailed on the speed limit or worse yet the flow of the fast traffic, in those winds. I'd have no qualms cruising under the posted limit and/or the flow in the fast lane, especially in high winds; usually there are several lanes after all for those who wish to pass to do so. When I was out there I went my own pace and didn't get shot at.