Age vs Condition and fueleconomy.gov

[Xist]

Wow! I have lost my response twice!

Using electrical tape instead of replacing inexpensive wires is extremely lazy. What other shortcuts did they take?

I know someone with a Buick Century. She likes it, but says it is far more difficult to replace the spark plugs than it should be, but I showed her a trick on YouTube.

According to this chart, originally via Ecky, Acuras are more reliable than Buicks, but they can only take a limited amount of abuse:

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by Xist

... According to this chart, originally via Ecky, Acuras are more reliable than Buicks ...

Neat chart. Have always disliked Audis and VWs, feeling they were low initial quality ever since the 1980s set in. But where is that chart from? And how old is it? Seems like it must be 2008-2010, since it has Smart on it but also still has Pontiac and Saturn on it.

[He-man]

Originally Posted by CANCarbGuy

Hey guys and girls, long time visitor to the site, first time posting. Not long ago I was in a situation that raised some questions that I'd like some opinions on.

Recently, I helped my cousin buy her first vehicle due to her heading off for university. Due to a low budget, we only had 2 options. The first was her friend's 2001 Honda Integra sedan (1.8 I4, 4 speed auto transmission). He let us borrow it for a few days and I expected it to do well, but MPG came back at a disappointing 19.5/ 28 (hand calculated). I thought for sure we'd at least break into the 30's. The other option was her next door neighbour's 1989 Buick Electra Park Avenue (3.8 V6, 4 speed auto transmission) that the family was selling (the owner had been moved into an old folks home). We convinced them to let us borrow it for a weekend to test it out, and we got a solid 19/ 29 mpg. Between the two, the big difference between them was the condition. The Integra, maintenance wise, looked to been beaten and neglected as far as I could tell. it sounded fine, but the oil, spark plugs, air filter, all were old and black with use. One of the spark plug wires had electrical tape wrapped around it in one area, and I didn't even want to think about things such as alignment, tire pressure, fuel filters, etc. The Buick on the other hand, was in mint condition. Everything from rubber suspension parts to the air cleaner looked new. As far as I could tell, everything was %100 up to date maintenance-wise.
Also, the Integra had roughly 201,000 KM's, the Buick had 186,000.

Now here's the weird part: After my cousin bought the Buick, I checked fueleconomy.gov to see if what we got MPG-wise, was normal. For the new ratings, the Integra is rated at 20/28, so we actually got pretty close. The old ratings rate it at 24/30. The new ratings for the Buick is 17/26, but the old ratings are 19/28, which again, we almost hit spot on.

So, to close, my questions are: How much does long term maintenance really effect fuel economy? And, how the heck did fueleconomy.gov reach their conclusions about what MPG ratings older vehicles should get? To be honest, I'm still a little skeptical that a 27 year old, V6 powered Buick was able to meet/ exceed it's original ratings while the lighter, 15 year old I4 Honda wasn't even capable of meeting its new ratings. Don't get me wrong, I know that a full, in-depth tuneup would do it wonders, but would it be enough that it gains back the 4.5 city and 2 highway MPG's that it would need to reach it's original rating as well? All thoughts, options, and general speculation welcome.

The mpg on the Honda would go up if all the maintenance things that you mentioned were replaced. I don't think 35ish hwy is out of the picture if you did a full maintenance job on it. I would go with the Honda just simply because i feel it has more potential for mpg unless you feel that things will start breaking on it.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

Neat chart. Have always disliked Audis and VWs, feeling they were low initial quality ever since the 1980s set in. But where is that chart from? And how old is it? Seems like it must be 2008-2010, since it has Smart on it but also still has Pontiac and Saturn on it.

Original source:

Long-Term Quality Index

WHAT IS QIR?
The Quality Index Rating(QIR) offers an overall score based on the frequency of powertrain issues, the mileage distribution of when those issues take place, and vehicle age at the time of trade-in. You can think of it as a weighted average where we look at a number of factors for a given vehicle model, and then get a single value indicating it's overall long-term reliability.

WHERE DOES YOUR DATA COME FROM?
Our data is provided by a partnership with a national network of used car auctions, which allows us to get information on vehicles from all across the country with uniform reporting standards.

The aim of this site isn't to say "you should buy vehicle X, and not vehicle Y" but rather to provide an object way to compare different vehicles based on reliability data collected from trade-in vehicles. The focus of this data, and our analysis, is centered on powertrain(engine/transmission) issues, and the distribution of vehicles based on mileage. Some charts refer to "engine" issues, "transmission" issues and "powertrain" issues individually; in these cases "powertrain" refers to either engine or transmission issues(ie: a vehicle that has both engine and transmission issues, it will only be counted once under powertrain, and will be included in both the engine and transmission charts).

Mileage distribution charts are designed to give you an idea about what the average life-span of a vehicle is, based on the trade-in vehicle data we have. Obviously there is some selection bias here; if someone buys a vehicle and keeps it until it croaks, it won't show up in our data. However, with over 300,000 vehicles(and counting), and by taking measures to ensure our analysis isn't unduly influenced by outliers, we're able to give a general picture of what the 'average' vehicles for a specific model will look like.

In these mileage charts, the blue curve with the darker background represents the average distribution of vehicles(across all makes and models in our database). Many models have a similar distribution of vehicles, which represents a normal distribution of vehicles(most vehicles are in the middle range of mileage, between 120,000 and 180,000 miles). Some vehicles have a similar shape, but are positioned farther to the right or left than the typical distribution, which represents either a larger distribution of low-mileage vehicles(farther to the left), or higher-mileage vehicles(farther to the right). Newer models will obviously have most of their vehicles with low miles, while defunct models will generally have higher-mileage vehicles. Generally(but not always), a heavy concentration of vehicles in one area(a peak on the curve) is an indication of issues with that model.

[The donkey CRX]

One more observation on the GM 3.8 V6 with auto. I live out in the country and noticed that a lot of the rural mail delivery persons drive these vintage 3.8 V6 autos. I guess they know from experience that they hold up under some severe service conditions. When they wear one out, they just find another low mileage one to replace it