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Old 02-06-2018, 10:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Do they make high efficiency alternators? Or can you just get a smaller alternator?? (asking for a friend)

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Old 02-06-2018, 05:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mannydantyla View Post
Do they make high efficiency alternators? Or can you just get a smaller alternator?? (asking for a friend)
Unfortunately, with alternators, the smaller the less efficient. And probably Metro"s alternator is as small as they get.
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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A larger alternator rewired for wye configuration, rectified with smart diodes that have almost 0 forward voltage drop and spun slower would be more efficient.
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Would you also try an electric water pump? Or attempt something like the Ford Model T that didn't have a water pump at all?
I will use electric water pump.

The problem with existing aftermarket automotive electric water pumps is their high current draw and low efficiency. The offerings are all pumps for cars with big engines. But after extensive research, I found a suitable pump: March 809C. This is a very well built continuous duty high temperature (120C) rated pump with magnetic impeller drive. It has a 12V version. Depending on the impeller and pump body style, it draws 1.1 - 1.6 A. With larger impeller from the 813 model, flow rate is 8 gpm at zero pressure head. Flow can be increased to 9 gpm by opening up passages and streamlining flow. Metro's stock belt-driven pump has flow rate in the same ballpark.

March 809 12 V pumps are expensive - about $250 new, but used ones in good shape can be found for $50 - $75. Spare bodies and impellers are available and reasonably priced.
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You could add a solenoid valve somewhere on your cooling circuit. Then if necessary you can blow off some pressure to get instant cooling.

You will have to fill up with distilled water occasionally or condense the steam and use that.
An interesting suggestion. The ultimate implementation of it was experimental evaporative engine cooling in early versions of FW-190 fighter plane. Steam condensers were placed in the wings. But a bullet hole in a wing, and alles kaput, so air-cooled engine was used on production models. Since chances of getting a bullet hole in a Metro are not that high nowadays, evap cooling may be a viable approach.

I am afraid that opening a valve on pressurized cooling system with engine running will have quite drastic consequences, similar to what happens when radiator cap safety valve opens as a result of engine overheating.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I actually don't really care for electric water pumps on although delete vehicles.
It's more power you don't have to spend.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
I actually don't really care for electric water pumps on although delete vehicles.
It's more power you don't have to spend.
Yes, belt-driven stock water pump cannot be bettered in its simplicity and reliability. Electric pump is just another critical gadget requiring attention, prone to breakdown, and reducing overall reliability of an automobile.

Also true - more power you have to spend. But there is power and power. The sole purpose of going into trouble with electric pump is to reduce consumption of gasoline-derived power by increasing consumption of gasoline-independent electric power. Isn't it gasoline that we are trying to save here?

Drag of water pump on the engine is much less than that of alternator. But deleting alternator alone without deleting water pump poses technical difficulty because alternator also serves as serpentine belt tensioner. Without alernator, one has to come up with a custom tensioner. I was thinking of a stretch-fit belt that works without tensioner, but that would require machining a custom water pump pulley. So, I decided that electric water pump would be an easier solution, at least in my situation.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mannydantyla View Post
Or can you just get a smaller alternator?? (asking for a friend)
I assume you mean a lower-output alternator. Some people just resort to underdrive pulleys instead, due to its lower cost than replacing an entire alternator.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sser2 View Post
An interesting suggestion. The ultimate implementation of it was experimental evaporative engine cooling in early versions of FW-190 fighter plane. Steam condensers were placed in the wings. But a bullet hole in a wing, and alles kaput, so air-cooled engine was used on production models. Since chances of getting a bullet hole in a Metro are not that high nowadays, evap cooling may be a viable approach.

I am afraid that opening a valve on pressurized cooling system with engine running will have quite drastic consequences, similar to what happens when radiator cap safety valve opens as a result of engine overheating.
Yes indeed, but the valve can be opened very briefly, or a nozzle of some type may be attached to release pressure slowly.

I wonder if the pump can be completely eliminated, or are the engines now designed in such a manner that they will develop steam pockets with no liquid contact and will locally overheat.

The size of the pump can be reduced quite a bit in my opinion/guesstimation assuming the engine is driven in econo-mode.


Another thing that came to my mind that i am kind of implementing is not using the radiator at all. Currently it is blocked by cardboard. And when the heat rises a bit, i turn on the blower fan and pump the excess heat in to the cabin.

I suppose the radiator fan signal could be rerouted to the blower fan, this is assuming the outside temps are cooler.
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Old 02-07-2018, 12:07 AM   #30 (permalink)
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One has to tread carefully putzing with the cooling system. A short episode of overheating may end up in blown gasket and warped head. Unfortunately, cooling system cannot be sized for econo driving because it needs capacity to accomodate non-econo driving episodes, such as climbing long steep hills.

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