01-10-2012, 01:50 PM
|
#41 (permalink)
|
Batman Junior
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
|
Looks like I've found one stick that's a bit of a dud:
5402 mAh - stick #5's max. discharge capacity
Compare with:
6566 mAh - average max. discharge capacity of the sticks prior to that one
The testing continues!
MetroMPG's battery pack analysis - 2000 Honda Insight (Google Docs spreadsheet)
|
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
01-10-2012, 06:01 PM
|
#42 (permalink)
|
Renaissance Man
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the Northeast dreaming of the Southwest
Posts: 596
Thanks: 20
Thanked 31 Times in 24 Posts
|
Perhaps that stick has one bad cell and five good ones? The capacity is almost exactly 5/6 of the average. Of course that's irrelevant unless you have a way to disassemble sticks and re-weld them together.
__________________
|
|
|
01-10-2012, 06:10 PM
|
#43 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 692
Thanks: 371
Thanked 227 Times in 140 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG
Looks like I've found one stick that's a bit of a dud:
5402 mAh - stick #5's max. discharge capacity
Compare with:
6566 mAh - average max. discharge capacity of the sticks prior to that one
The testing continues!
|
If that is the largest difference you find in discharge capacity ... that is a ~17% effective capacity loss compared to the ~40% you had from the differences in SoC... even without replacing it ... just a balanced SoC will give you effectively about double the initial usable discharge capacity for the whole pack.
It is also interesting that the subpack with this lowest so far discharge capacity ... initially had the 3rd highest SoC with 1,159 mAh ... while the so far highest discharge capacity subpack with 6,714mAh , was initially one of the lowest SoC with only 17mAh.
good stuff
|
|
|
01-10-2012, 06:41 PM
|
#44 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: RI
Posts: 692
Thanks: 371
Thanked 227 Times in 140 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula413
Perhaps that stick has one bad cell and five good ones? The capacity is almost exactly 5/6 of the average. Of course that's irrelevant unless you have a way to disassemble sticks and re-weld them together.
|
I doubt it would be worth the trouble ... but ...
After you tested each of the 6 cells in a subpack stick to quantify them ... if it turned out that it was just one cell ... you would need to carefully take the welded 6 cell subpack apart... something like the way Mike D did it ... shown Here.
Then in order to weld the pack back together you need a good capacitive discharge spot welder ... you could buy one for more than a new battery pack costs ... or you could build cheaper if you that the know how ... one like Mike D did ... Here.
To be safe you retest... but that is a lot of work / effort... I wouldn't recommend it ... doing the 20 subpacks is enough work already.
|
|
|
01-10-2012, 08:08 PM
|
#45 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Lurker
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Good thread.
I have a 2001 Insight that the battery pack has low capacity.
I need to do what you are doing. The only thing that is stopping me is I don't know what to do to be able to drive my Insight without the battery pack.
How did you do it?
Thanks.
john
|
|
|
01-10-2012, 08:42 PM
|
#46 (permalink)
|
Left Lane Ecodriver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257
Thanks: 79
Thanked 287 Times in 200 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula413
Perhaps that stick has one bad cell and five good ones? The capacity is almost exactly 5/6 of the average. Of course that's irrelevant unless you have a way to disassemble sticks and re-weld them together.
|
That is likely. The performance of a stick will be determined by the weakest cell in the stick, just as the performance of the whole pack can be limited by a single underperforming cell. However, the fact that the weakest cell appears to have 5/6ths the capacity of the rest is coincidence.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to RobertSmalls For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-10-2012, 08:48 PM
|
#47 (permalink)
|
Left Lane Ecodriver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257
Thanks: 79
Thanked 287 Times in 200 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG
But the hybrid stuff is way cool
|
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so.
It looks like you're going about it the right way. One thing that I've learned since my first battery refurb, though: when you put it all back together, evenly torque down the bolts that hold the battery sticks to the end plates. I pulled my pack a while after refurbishing it to investigate performance issues, and I found that one of those bolts had worked its way loose.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobertSmalls For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-10-2012, 08:49 PM
|
#48 (permalink)
|
Left Lane Ecodriver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257
Thanks: 79
Thanked 287 Times in 200 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
Is anyone aware of a source for sticks in case you find one that won't wake up? It seems from yours and other efforts that they seem to wake up nicely.
|
*raises a hand*
I haven't been spending much time on the forums, but I do have some sticks for sale. So does Hybrid-Battery-Repair.com. You could try a WTB thread here or on InsightCentral, because I'm sure I'm not the only one parting out a pack.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RobertSmalls For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-10-2012, 08:57 PM
|
#49 (permalink)
|
Hypermiler Extraordinaire
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 22
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsn
Good thread.
I have a 2001 Insight that the battery pack has low capacity.
I need to do what you are doing. The only thing that is stopping me is I don't know what to do to be able to drive my Insight without the battery pack.
How did you do it?
Thanks.
john
|
Disconnect the junction board from the battery and replace it in the battery box, connecting everything as if the battery were there. Works fine, but keep the 12v battery charging so you don't ruin it!
On a side note, I've built a lot of simple 350mah chargers for a lot of Insight owners, and all have been happy with the results so far, in regards to bringing packs back to life. Just mentioning for those that might not see a pack disassembly in your future.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Artric For This Useful Post:
|
|
01-10-2012, 10:32 PM
|
#50 (permalink)
|
Batman Junior
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,527
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,976 Times in 3,612 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls
evenly torque down the bolts that hold the battery sticks to the end plates. I pulled my pack a while after refurbishing it to investigate performance issues, and I found that one of those bolts had worked its way loose.
|
Good point.
I learned the importance of that already with the ForkenSwift (electric Metro). A loose battery terminal can wreak havoc for sure in a high current pack! (Stuff will melt - though I didn't get to that point.)
|
|
|
|