Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-13-2021, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,205 Times in 1,066 Posts
Any appreciation for what might be the closest "modern" attempt to effectively replace the VW Beetle?


ICE is still important for an all-purpose small car, as their range is better suited to the actual needs of the average Joe in a country like Brazil. In contrast to some attempts to strip-down some random European econobox and fit it with an underpowered engine, Brazilian engineer Amaral Gurgel was more considerate of the local conditions, which have led him to keep loyal to the rear-wheel drive layout, as it was better suited to deal with the unpaved roads on rural areas.

Unlike the Beetle, it had a front flat-twin engine often mistaken for a Beetle engine split in half, even though it's water-cooled and features a timing chain. Rear drive was through a solid axle, and the weight bias while unloaded was 50-50, switching to a higher bias at the rear axle just like the Beetle under basically any load condition.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-29-2021)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-13-2021, 09:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,412
Thanks: 5,723
Thanked 6,655 Times in 5,373 Posts
Yes, but....

I'd go with the Inrekor flat-pack chassis, even though they're as gone as Gurgel at this point.



The fools could have sold Porsche/VW chassis to subsidize their electric dreams.
__________________
.
Sandy Munro: Sacred cows make the best steak.
____________________

Last edited by freebeard; 09-13-2021 at 09:53 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2021, 11:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
High Altitude Hybrid
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 830

Avalon - '13 Toyota Avalon HV
90 day: 40.45 mpg (US)

Prius - '06 Toyota Prius
Thanks: 461
Thanked 240 Times in 180 Posts
Interesting car. How was the rest wheel drive better suited than front wheel drive? The 50/50 weight distribution would have advantages at high speeds, but at low speeds on poor surfaces having now weight over the drive wheels seems to be better IMO.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 01:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,412
Thanks: 5,723
Thanked 6,655 Times in 5,373 Posts
It's an uphill vs downhill situation.

Edit:
There's quite a list of models produced:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurgel#Vehicles_produced.

The first one I ever saw [pictured] was the X15:


wikipedia

Which is interesting to compare with the 21st Century [solar] Xbus.
__________________
.
Sandy Munro: Sacred cows make the best steak.
____________________

Last edited by freebeard; 09-14-2021 at 01:27 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,205 Times in 1,066 Posts
Maybe that Inrekor frame could be better suited to a replica of some older Gurgel still based on the rear-engined Volkswagen design, such as the X-12 or even the X-15.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
How was the rest wheel drive better suited than front wheel drive?
Not only the weight bias is more favorable to moderate off-road conditions, the rear-wheel drive layout improves handling on tight corners as it leaves more space for the front wheels to steer due to the absence of halfshafts, a valuable asset for inner-city driving.


Quote:
The 50/50 weight distribution would have advantages at high speeds, but at low speeds on poor surfaces having now weight over the drive wheels seems to be better IMO.
The 50-50 weight distribution is with the car unloaded. Once it's been loaded up, even if it's only the driver on board, the bias shifts toward the rear axle.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cRiPpLe_rOoStEr For This Useful Post:
Isaac Zachary (09-14-2021)
Old 09-21-2021, 10:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,479

Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
Team Honda
90 day: 41.97 mpg (US)

Aerocivic - '92 Honda Civic CX
90 day: 64.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,293
Thanked 2,064 Times in 1,285 Posts
I'd argue that the spiritual successor to the Beetle, on the road today, is something like a Corolla. Relatively inexpensive, small, lightweight, easy to work on, tons of them on the road, parts are abundant.

The closest mechanical equivalent is definitely nowhere near the spiritual equivalent.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 02:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 20,412
Thanks: 5,723
Thanked 6,655 Times in 5,373 Posts
I went with the Geo Metro (not this one).



It's got the glass headlight covers.
__________________
.
Sandy Munro: Sacred cows make the best steak.
____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 07:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,205 Times in 1,066 Posts
Meanwhile in Brazil, the small cars which now hold a status quite comparable to how the Beetle used to be seen as a cheap beater are local variants of the Fiat Uno and Opel Corsa B. Not to mention the Corsa was also the first small car to become a serious contender to the Beetle in Mexico.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I'd argue that the spiritual successor to the Beetle, on the road today, is something like a Corolla. Relatively inexpensive, small, lightweight, easy to work on, tons of them on the road, parts are abundant.
I usually refer to the Corolla as some sort of Japanese Beetle too, even though it might not be so suitable to the needs of some rural folks who still praise the rear-engined RWD layout of the Beetle.


Quote:
The closest mechanical equivalent is definitely nowhere near the spiritual equivalent.
Neither was the Gurgel Supermini so close to the basic layout of the Beetle, but at least it took in consideration the actual requirements of rural Brazilians who previously would buy a Beetle mostly for its mild off-road ability.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 10:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 2,295
Thanks: 219
Thanked 626 Times in 539 Posts
Whatever the successor it needs beetle traits: DIY maintenance or lack thereof, cheap parts, simple home repairs. Notice I did not mention reliable, cheap purchase,high economy. I had documents where my 72 super originally cost as much as dad's buick, and as much as my Pinto. The super got 25 city, 32 highway for 500k miles I owned it, the pinto did 28/40, hard to say on the buick since it had a tendency to smoke the tires when I drove it.
__________________
casual notes from the underground:There are some "experts" out there that in reality don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 01:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 10,135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,205 Times in 1,066 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Whatever the successor it needs beetle traits: DIY maintenance or lack thereof, cheap parts, simple home repairs. Notice I did not mention reliable, cheap purchase,high economy.
There were times when a 2WD Jeep CJ-5 was cheaper than a Beetle in Brazil. Also didn't really had an outstanding fuel economy. Reliability usually is often pointed out as good regarding both the Beetle and the CJ-5 here, no wonder once in a while I still see a daily-driven CJ-5 and a lot of Beetles roaming around too.


Quote:
I had documents where my 72 super originally cost as much as dad's buick, and as much as my Pinto. The super got 25 city, 32 highway for 500k miles I owned it, the pinto did 28/40, hard to say on the buick since it had a tendency to smoke the tires when I drove it.
Earlier this week the owner of a 1300-L Beetle from the late-'70s told me its fuel economy was relatively good considering its age. Besides the air cooling which charges its toll on fuel-efficiency, maybe a 5th gear could be desirable to increase highway mileage too.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com