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Old 06-26-2009, 05:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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AP: Calif. To Pay Owners To Scrap High-Pollution Cars

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SACRAMENTO (AP) — California regulators have expanded a state car-scrapping program to provide incentives of as much as $4,000 to motorists who surrender high-polluting vehicles and replace them with cleaner cars.

California Air Resources Board Chairwoman Mary Nichols says the program approved Friday would help get some of the oldest, dirtiest cars, trucks and sports utility vehicles off state roads.

Unlike the federal "cash for clunkers" program signed into law Wednesday by President Barack Obama, California's effort is not primarily designed to replace gas guzzlers with more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Instead, the state will target those cars with the worst smog-forming tailpipe emissions -- pollutants that give areas of California some of the country's dirtiest air.
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For low income residents, this seems like a pretty sweet deal. Ditch an old polluting guzzler and grab a 2002 Civic/Corolla/etc for around a grand, maybe even free. The text is here, and it looks like all pre-1976 and diesel vehicles will be eligible, as well as specific post-1976 vehicles identified as gross polluters, provided the vehicle in question has been registered for most of the past two years.

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Old 06-26-2009, 06:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Great, more diesels are gone from the world...

Why not spend all that money on making cleaner diesel fuel? Or investing in bio-fuel alternatives?

I don't pretend to know what's best for our country, by any means. But I wish that CARB and the EPA would stop pretending to know as well.
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The problem isn't diesel vehicles, fuel and/or biofuels in general, but older vehicles that are significant pollution sources compared to the majority of vehicles in the state, which includes older diesels. It's also limited to a specific portion of southern CA with the worst air quality and highest population density, because diesels are associated w/ greater NOx production, a precursor to smog. Besides, it isn't like ya can't come over and save a bunch of older diesels if ya wanna, just don't forget your wallet. Anyhoo, CARB and the EPA don't pretend to know what's best for the country, just what's best for air quality in this context.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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And california is going to pay for this with what money? The state is about to pay it's bills next month with IOUs. It is firing state employees by the thousands. It has a $24 billion deficit this year. This is more irresponsible BS from a state gov that can't live within it's means. Give me a break.
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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roflwaffle -

There's an old statistic I got from my Urban Planning class back in the 1980's. In most urban situations like Los Angeles, 50% of the automobile air pollution comes from 10% of the vehicles, aka the "gross polluters". Sounds like the legislation is hoping to get to these automobiles (1976 or older). I see (or smell) one every day on the freeway. There's a "gross polluter hotline" that you can call to report them (1-800-Cut-Smog). I've written down license plates every now and then, but never made the call.

If my Dad still has his 1972 Chevy Impala, this might have been a good way to unload it.

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Old 06-27-2009, 02:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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LOL
And california is going to pay for this with what money? The state is about to pay it's bills next month with IOUs. It is firing state employees by the thousands. It has a $24 billion deficit this year. This is more irresponsible BS from a state gov that can't live within it's means. Give me a break.
Use the search Luke, er, tits. The program has an established/consistent means of funding, unlike the other programs that are on the cutting block now that tax revenue is down. Besides, can you seriously expect me to believe you think a $25 billion budget shortfall is caused by a $30 million program?

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Old 06-27-2009, 02:39 AM   #7 (permalink)
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roflwaffle -

There's an old statistic I got from my Urban Planning class back in the 1980's. In most urban situations like Los Angeles, 50% of the automobile air pollution comes from 10% of the vehicles, aka the "gross polluters". Sounds like the legislation is hoping to get to these automobiles (1976 or older). I see (or smell) one every day on the freeway. There's a "gross polluter hotline" that you can call to report them (1-800-Cut-Smog). I've written down license plates every now and then, but never made the call.

If my Dad still has his 1972 Chevy Impala, this might have been a good way to unload it.

CarloSW2
This presentation has a graph showing that 62% of emissions are coming from 20% of the LDV fleet, so it looks like you're spot on cfg. I haven't written down a license plates yet, but if I see another "chipped" diesel pickup get on the throttle and spew unburnt fuel across the freeway I would certainly be tempted to. What's so hard about installing a bigger turbo if they wanna burn more fuel?

Anyhoo, if my old Toyota pickup gets picked I'd seriously consider the idea since I'm "low income" and $4000 in cash/vouchers would put me about $1000+ away from a 2002/2003 Tacoma w/ a measly 100k miles on it. My 250k mile pickup probably needs about grand in suspension and engine work anyway, so it'd certainly be a nice trade.
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
Besides, you can seriously expect me to believe you think a $25 billion budget shortfall is caused by a $30 million program?
No, but you get a hundred or so different $30 million programs... A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money :-)
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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No, but you get a hundred or so different $30 million programs... A million here, a million there, and pretty soon you're talking real money :-)
A hundred different $30 million programs is still nearly $22 billion short of the budget shortfall.

Anyhoo, different CA programs have different funding methods. AB 118 had specific stipulations regarding how it will be paid and is more or less independent of the state budget because of those stipulations. The programs that don't have specific funding sources are the ones behind the budget shortfall and the ones on the chopping block to at least some extent, barring of course tax increases.
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This isn't a new program, they've been doing it for at least 10 years.

The amount they offer varies some years depending I guess on how much is in the pool from the registration fees collected.

The only change is they may offering more next year (though the website is still saying $1000, not $4000)

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A few months ago I returned home just as my neighbor pulled into his driveway. It was cold (around freezing) with some rain and sleet, and he yells to me: You rode your bike? In this weather?!?

So the other day we both returned home at the same time again, only now the weather is warm, sunny, with no wind. And I yell to him: You took the car? In this weather?!?
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