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Old 04-19-2021, 07:10 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
That's because fuel is cheap and plentiful.
No, it's because biologically I have an interest in how things work, and tangentially, how to make them work efficiently. Most people don't have an interest in how things work, and therefore have no interest in efficiency except with regard to their finances (how much is this going to cost me).

If people were interested in efficiency the EnergyStar placard would list how much x output you get for y energy expenditure. They know people aren't interested in efficiency, so instead they list how much an appliance will cost to run annually compared to the normal range of similar appliances.

Interest in cost is not the same as interest in efficiency.

Quote:
Imagine if gasoline were suddenly 5 times the price and so many gas stations were closed down that you only knew of maybe one or two in your area, and because of that wait times are going to be terrible.
You're imagining things now, and asking me to do the same. There's no reality in which the price of petrol has been adjusted to reflect demand, and there's still a horrific line to get it. That's asking me to imagine that supply and demand don't exist, but instead something else that hasn't been defined does instead.

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But if you want to get some fuel for a decent price within a reasonable amount of time you can get a ration of it with just enough for about 30 miles per day max for all your vehicles. And if you want more at a reasonable price you need to have a proffesional install a weird contraption outside of your house, apartment, condo that will end up costing you over $1,000 just so you can get maybe a hundred or two hundred miles per day of fuel.
Sounds like Communism, and that "weird contraption" being a bureaucrat elite.

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Well that's basically what people are faced with entering the EV market. Right now it's not a big concern since the great majority of people buying EV's are rich and don't care about the other costs because "they're saving money" somehow, or at lest they think they are.
This part summarizes the current state of affairs; that the wealthy are the only ones purchasing new EVs, and they aren't saving money because of the extra upfront cost baked into the total cost of ownership and depreciation.

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But if the day comes that the rest of us have to start buying new or used EV's then we will likely want to be able to get more than 30 miles a day out of them. Ultra efficiency would greatly help that, especially for apartment dwellers.
Agreed. EVs are rapidly becoming affordable for lower income people. EVs are really only about a decade old, so the oldest examples are only that old. The majority of EVs are less than 4 years old, so they haven't depreciated much yet.

The used market will always be the domain of the less wealthy. Unfortunately the Aptera will never sell in the numbers new to be widely available on the used market. That's ok, because we're already seeing vehicles like the original Leaf and that hideous imev at the lower end of the used price spectrum. A few more years and the excellent Chevy Bolt will be priced similarly.

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Old 04-19-2021, 07:19 PM   #72 (permalink)
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A few more years and the excellent Chevy Bolt will be priced similarly.
And after those who want an EV and own their own home get their EV the price will drop even more as many renters, who although may like the idea of driving an EV, wouldn't be able to make use of one even if it were free since they'd have no place to charge it up quick enough at a reasonable price and place.
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:29 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
And after those who want an EV and own their own home get their EV the price will drop even more as many renters, who although may like the idea of driving an EV, wouldn't be able to make use of one even if it were free since they'd have no place to charge it up quick enough at a reasonable price and place.
Unfortunately apartments are usually not built with the future in mind. They are built to a price per unit, with even future costs to the owners often taking a back seat to initial price.

Were I building an apartment complex, I'd install a means of charging EVs and a way to bill for the service. Could be a huge advantage in the future, and a small source of additional revenue.
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Old 04-19-2021, 08:25 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Unfortunately apartments are usually not built with the future in mind. They are built to a price per unit, with even future costs to the owners often taking a back seat to initial price.

Were I building an apartment complex, I'd install a means of charging EVs and a way to bill for the service. Could be a huge advantage in the future, and a small source of additional revenue.
Ya, if I were to construct some apartments I'd do the same thing.

On the other hand, if things keep going the way they are those of us who rent won't be able to afford a car unless we can live in it too. The Tesla community is betting on this and hopes to provide transportation for us through autopilot taxis.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:38 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Unfortunately apartments are usually not built with the future in mind.

Were I building an apartment complex, I'd install a means of charging EVs and a way to bill for the service.
While we are 'were I'-ing.....

The goal would be a structure far cheaper, with superior thermal performance; with the hidden agenda of making a spiritually uplifting place to inhabit (ha! They'd never see that coming.) This is from a 2001 interview with Michael Graves



Quote:
16:36 and I said I was only interested if we
16:38 could build it in brick and stucco and
16:41 vaults and domes which a couple of
16:43 Masons can do and it is an amazing
16:45 process and this way you sleep under a
16:48 dome not on a piece of horizontal
16:51 concrete slab and it's just magical what
16:55 you can do and these Mason's are happy
16:59 as as anything because they get to do
17:01 their craft and so I'm really pleased
17:03 about that...
Check out the scaffolding around the Washington Monument he designed for it's restoration.They didn't want to tear it down.

Bucky Fuller predicted housing would become a service you lease, like a telephone.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:55 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary View Post
That's because fuel is cheap and plentiful.

Imagine if gasoline were suddenly 5 times the price and so many gas stations were closed down that you only knew of maybe one or two in your area, and because of that wait times are going to be terrible. But if you want to get some fuel for a decent price within a reasonable amount of time you can get a ration of it with just enough for about 30 miles per day max for all your vehicles. And if you want more at a reasonable price you need to have a proffesional install a weird contraption outside of your house, apartment, condo that will end up costing you over $1,000 just so you can get maybe a hundred or two hundred miles per day of fuel.

Well that's basically what people are faced with entering the EV market. Right now it's not a big concern since the great majority of people buying EV's are rich and don't care about the other costs because "they're saving money" somehow, or at lest they think they are.

But if the day comes that the rest of us have to start buying new or used EV's then we will likely want to be able to get more than 30 miles a day out of them. Ultra efficiency would greatly help that, especially for apartment dwellers.
Oh it's only a matter of time
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Old 04-24-2021, 02:33 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Aptera software bleh, live reveal?

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Old 04-24-2021, 03:14 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Like anybody's going to keep a tab open for 24 days.
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Old 04-26-2021, 03:14 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Like anybody's going to keep a tab open for 24 days.
Why not? I do.

Though I wouldn't for something like that.
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Old 04-26-2021, 11:52 AM   #80 (permalink)
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None of my tabs have been open less than 24 days... and I never have fewer than 24 open. It's a problem, but I keep thinking more hours will appear in a day so that I can research all the things... not realizing that it's the research that breeds the tabs, not closes them.

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