Autonomous Cars - Are They Realistic?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

...coupled with the fact that 5g cell service will make data transfer much faster, among other advances.

The problem with that is that 5g's limited range makes it only practical for congested urban areas. 5g's range is (optimistically) about 1500 ft, and its short wavelengths are easily blocked: https://www.computerworld.com/articl...y-from-5g.html 3g & 4g range is anywhere from 3-30 miles, perhaps more if you're on a mountain with a good line of sight - and there are still lots of places in the US that have roads but no cell service.

So the only way to make that workable is for every car to in effect be its own cell tower, adding yet more cost & complexity.

[Varn]

We're on an 16' wide gravel road. Had a delivery truck call me today and ask. "I am on your road but there is no bridge?" Just a ford with water crossing over it.

He was following gps. I directed him several miles around the the creek crossing. There may be a lot easier things to automate than trying to make cars do what they are not suited for. The human brain is much more powerful and versatile than any computer. The experts are wrong.

[ksa8907]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

The problem with that is that 5g's limited range makes it only practical for congested urban areas. 5g's range is (optimistically) about 1500 ft, and its short wavelengths are easily blocked: https://www.computerworld.com/articl...y-from-5g.html 3g & 4g range is anywhere from 3-30 miles, perhaps more if you're on a mountain with a good line of sight - and there are still lots of places in the US that have roads but no cell service.

So the only way to make that workable is for every car to in effect be its own cell tower, adding yet more cost & complexity.

5G won't be restricted to high frequency, which is why they killed off 2g and have already set drop dead dates for 3g.

Also, beam forming technology from wifi will likley be implemented and will improve transfer rates and range.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

5G won't be restricted to high frequency, which is why they killed off 2g and have already set drop dead dates for 3g.

Not from what I've read, though I'm certainly no expert.

Also, beam forming technology from wifi will likley be implemented and will improve transfer rates and range.

Adding further cost & complexity :-)

[redpoint5]

Longer wavelengths (low frequency) transmit further, and through more objects, but support lower data rates. Shorter wavelengths (high frequency) transmit shorter distances and have less object penetration.

Long range isn't desirable because only 1 conversation can take place on a frequency at a time. That's the idea behind "cellular" towers. They have short range so that other conversations can be made on the same frequency not too far away.

The pertinent data a vehicle needs to communicate to others is small. It needs to transmit position, and intended course and speed; a vector. Other stuff too, but the data is still minimal.

Communication with other vehicles is a relatively minor technical consideration compared with the vastly difficult task of dealing with a dynamic environment and accurately interpreting sensor inputs into actionable or ignorable responses.

[hayden55]

Realistically they are still taking in data from human drivers to develop their autonomy. Unless you are in an area like the bay area most of the devices will struggle to drive similar to what a 14 year old learning to drive would do. But thats not to say i'm a naysayer here. The devices right now are really fantastic at level two autonomy, bumper to bumper traffic, highway cruising, and interstate bombing.
Comma Ai to me is the self driving car for the every man.
Check them out on youtube!

[redpoint5]

If interstate travel was all AI ever got extremely safe at controlling, I'd be happy with that. Take off at 8pm when there is no traffic on a long road trip, sleep while the car puts in the miles, and wake up only to refuel or when we near the destination.

[freebeard]

Your seven points are good ones, but for me it is all mooted for the same reason as cell phones and 5G -- the potential for abuse of the citizenry by corporate entities is too great.

Not that that has stopped anyone else so far.

The proper way to introduce [the removal of your] autonomy would be as a back-seat driver. Letting you drive the car until you get in over your head and then stepping in at the last minute. Plus the lane keeping, etc.

[hayden55]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

If interstate travel was all AI ever got extremely safe at controlling, I'd be happy with that. Take off at 8pm when there is no traffic on a long road trip, sleep while the car puts in the miles, and wake up only to refuel or when we near the destination.

Exactly,

The only reason I even want one is just to be able to have a job an hour away and not have to actually drive the interstate there and back everyday and fight falling asleep.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Long range isn't desirable because only 1 conversation can take place on a frequency at a time. That's the idea behind "cellular" towers. They have short range so that other conversations can be made on the same frequency not too far away.

The problem, though, is that the shorter the range, the more towers you need for complete coverage. Cut the range in half, and you need at least four times as many towers - probably more when you take terrain & other obstacles into account. And then you need to run data cables and power lines to those towers... Not cheap, and probably not cost-effective outside of congested urban areas and such.