Basjoos in Top Gear Magazine....

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Mike,I know you're a lot further east of Bonneville than me,but have you ever considered running the Honda there? USFRA has a 130-mph Club for "street" cars.They require a Snell 2,000 or better helmet,a 5-pound fire extinguisher,metal valve caps and 40-psi in the tires.Membership in USFRA is $40 and there is a tech inspection,and also each driver must perform a 100-mph handling run to test speedometer calibration.You would need H-rated tires.You can run up to 139 mph and get a time slip accurate to 1/1000-mph from SCTA.--------- I think the AEROCIVIC would blow their minds and visitors would get a strong dose of what drag reduction can achieve.-------------- I plan to run next year in the T-100 and see about running with the trailer also,something I don't think has been done before.
I don't think the general public makes the "performance" connection with aero.This is one venue where it can be taken to the extreme in as safe as an environment as is possible.Please consider it.Top speed remains as a strong engineering criteria for design efficiency.When people realize that "Salt" technology works also on the "Street" we open many doors to near term possibilities and expectations in transportation.------------- The CIVIC remains an inspiration,thanks for all you do,Phil.

Sounds interesting, it would certainly be a long drive for me to get out there. Other questions I would need to resolve is whether my car has any max speed governor built into the ECU. According to TomO, the VX's engine cuts out at 116mph, which is presumably the speed rating for the OEM tires on the VX. The ECU in my car came from the Irish version of the Civic Vtec-e, so I would need to find out what, if any, speed governing it might have or if it could be removed from the ECU programming. The next step would be to find H-rated tires. There are only a few brands of OEM sized tires sold in this country for the 92-95 Civic hatch and don't know if any of them are H-rated.

I'd need to figure out what the total cost for this adventure would be. So, a set of H-rated tires, helmet, fire extinguisher, metal valve caps, USFRA membership, travel cost to/from the event. When do they do the racing? So what's involved at Bonneville? Is it pretty much just drive up, USFRA car inspection, do the calibration run, do the full speed run, and then head home? Its not like I would be spending days at the site fine tuning the car trying for that last additional mph of speed.

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by Fr3AkAzOiD

I'd ask for compensation and then challenge them to a fuel efficiency contest.

I'm sure the Aerocivic can hold it's own against a gen 3 Prius and an Insight (new). Even if you lose so long as your close you prove that a 17 year old car with some home made aero modifications can get the same kind of MPG a brand new $20k hybrid can get.

I'll see if I can find the address to write or e-mail the magazine and PM it to you tonight.

I thought they are a British outfit, do they do any test driving in this country, and would they even be interested in such a contest? I don't know much about them or what types of testing they normally do.

The Aerocivic would have no problem holding its own against the new Insight both in town and especially on the highway, and would handily beat the gen 3 Prius on the highway, especially at the speeds that these guys would likely be driving at.

To do a with/without mods comparision, the Aerocivic would have to be compared with the Civic VX, a champion high mileage car in its own right, but no match for my mileage at highway speeds.

[TomO]

My near stock exterior VX pulls 46MPG at 80MPH...no where near the likes of what Mike gets in his AeroCivic.

[basjoos]

I'm not surprised by this criticism from established car circles, its not not like my car fits into any of the standard automotive pidgeon holes.

The aerocivic doesn't look like the traditional sports car/NASCAR-wannabe, so the overly macho-ed afficianadoes of that genre tend to dis it since it doesn't fit their image of a "high performance" car.

Its not a hybrid, so the smug "hybrids will save the world" crowd are put off by this low tech anachronism, even though it is greener than most hybrids, seeing as it gets as good or better mileage than a hybrid without the environmental costs of the hybrid battery system. And the fact that it has over 500,000 miles on it and has eliminated the environmental costs of manufacturing 2 to 4 additional cars to replace it in my driving career adds to the greeness.

Even some hypermilers look a bit askance at it since it gets good mileage even at higher speeds, which is sort of like cheating in their books. There's a bit of the "if I've got to suffer by driving slow all the time and putting up with the tailgaters, then you've got to suffer by driving slow all the time and putting up with the tailgaters" martyrdom mindset in some hypermilers which I have encountered from time to time over at the other website.

But all this doesn't bother me, I'm driving a unique vehicle and its up to others to decide if they want to follow in my path. In the meanwhile I'll keep cranking out the miles in my routine driving until such a time that the car manufacturers finally catch up with my car's Cd and FE performance and I can buy a new "aerocivic" off the showroom floor.

[TomO]

Originally Posted by basjoos

In the meanwhile I'll keep cranking out the miles in my routine driving until such a time that the car manufacturers finally catch up with my car's Cd and FE performance and I can buy a new "aerocivic" off the showroom floor.

I bet Honda could easily make a car that mimics yours in shape (don't know what they'd do for a drivetrain though). They probably would have to laden it down with so many gadgets and power though to get Sheeple to buy it that it wouldn't attain the same numbers as yours would though.

I think moreso it'll be the Sheeple's (general car owner populous) image and thought process that needs to change (like you implied) for any of this hypermiling to stick and really click with people. I think Sheeple are afraid to take responsibilities for their actions.

[user removed]

Basjoos, just consider any criticism as the opinion of people who are just small minded and must have the wrong agenda.

Personally I consider your efforts as an "in your face" example of independent thinking and a dedication to result driven improvement.

I have seen first hand the ignorance to real innovation in the established communities of people who just don't understand that the technology is already here to eliminate oil importation and the resulting subsidy of those who would bury us, using our own financial resources.

Low aero CD's should be required by law, as well as other methods, like stop start, that would eliminate our energy dependency.

In that resepect you are a shining example of real world accomplishment.

I totally agree with your refusal to accept the "I get great mileage, while averaging 22 MPH" statement.

If you want to drive that slow, ride a bike, or something that requires no license or insurance.

regards
Mech

[user removed]

Originally Posted by TomO

I bet Honda could easily make a car that mimics yours in shape (don't know what they'd do for a drivetrain though). They probably would have to laden it down with so many gadgets and power though to get Sheeple to buy it that it wouldn't attain the same numbers as yours would though.

I think moreso it'll be the Sheeple's (general car owner populous) image and thought process that needs to change (like you implied) for any of this hypermiling to stick and really click with people. I think Sheeple are afraid to take responsibilities for their actions.

Also consider that if the aerodynamics issues were properly addressed then final drive ratios could be reduced dramatically and mileage would be improved even more.

The only rationale that makes sense to me is the fact that almost all of those in the position of making the changes are driven by other motives.

regards
Mech

[dremd]

Originally Posted by basjoos

Sounds interesting, it would certainly be a long drive for me to get out there. Other questions I would need to resolve is whether my car has any max speed governor built into the ECU. According to TomO, the VX's engine cuts out at 116mph, which is presumably the speed rating for the OEM tires on the VX. The ECU in my car came from the Irish version of the Civic Vtec-e, so I would need to find out what, if any, speed governing it might have or if it could be removed from the ECU programming. The next step would be to find H-rated tires. There are only a few brands of OEM sized tires sold in this country for the 92-95 Civic hatch and don't know if any of them are H-rated.

I'd need to figure out what the total cost for this adventure would be. So, a set of H-rated tires, helmet, fire extinguisher, metal valve caps, USFRA membership, travel cost to/from the event. When do they do the racing? So what's involved at Bonneville? Is it pretty much just drive up, USFRA car inspection, do the calibration run, do the full speed run, and then head home? Its not like I would be spending days at the site fine tuning the car trying for that last additional mph of speed.

What size tires do you need? From time to time I get my hands on some free rubber (almost always speed rated, normally W, or Z).
I'd send my loaner helmet to you (as would others) in a heart beat.

[basjoos]

165/70/r13

[Big Dave]

As one reads through the comments about the basjoos-mobile one quickly gets the impression that most people cannot get beyond the radical appearance of the car. They cannot see the functional elegance because it looks like what it is – a prototype. Prototypes are not meant to be beuatiful because they have to be ready to implement changes for improved performance.

I’m sure the aerocivic has been through a lot of changes and is probably close to a final form. Once that final (or as final as it is gonna get) form is settled on, the next step is to get with a professional custom body shop and take a whack at making it nice looking. Maybe a meetup with Bondo…

But before that, a visit to Maxton, Goliad, or Bonneville is in order. Nice thing about a prototype, installing the safety equipment needed for homologating the car for racing should be fairly easy.

From looking at the vehicles that run at Maxton and the Texas Mile, I’d say there is a lot about aero design we could pickup there. A mile gives a car time to reach its true top speed. Unlike in drag racing where sheer HP rules (if you can get hooked up) that last little bit of aero drag is important in top speed racing.