Bio-Diesel, the other alternative fuel

[Irukandji83]

I know I'm super new to this forum and only been around a few hours, but this alternative fuel thread seems to be 100% about EV's and converting petrol powered vehicles into electric ones. Why is bio-diesel getting the cold shoulder? It's even mentioned in the thread's description but 10 pages in and I can't find anything relating to the 'other' alternative fuel, plant power! I don't know how people aren't half as excited about bio-diesel as I am....

[Irukandji83]

Sorry, there was one post on a compressed air car and an article from the WSJ about Ethanol, so it's NOT 100% about electric vehicles...

[KY Metro]

The answer is simple enough.... this is mostly a fuel economy forum, not an alternative fuels forum. You won't find too many greasers, woodgas burners, or moonshine conversions here, because those things don't save fuel, they simply replace petroleum with something else.

Electrics are here because they are very fuel efficient by necessity.

It's a fine point, I guess.....nevertheless, we would love to hear from some veggie oil guys!

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by KY Metro

The answer is simple enough.... this is mostly a fuel economy forum, not an alternative fuels forum. You won't find too many greasers, woodgas burners, or moonshine conversions here, because those things don't save fuel, they simply replace petroleum with something else.

Folks come here for different reasons... fuel economy (using as little fuel as possible) is one, price economy (spending as little money for transportation) is another, ecological reasons (reduction of non-renewable resource use, and reduction of greenhouse and other non-desirable waste) is another. Biodiesel fits in there neatly, though I think few members are familiar enough with it to maintain a discussion.

Originally Posted by KY Metro

Electrics are here because they are very fuel efficient by necessity.

The energy for electrics has to come from somewhere... Often from coal. An electric vehicle can use the energy just as inefficiently as a vehicle using any other kind of fuel as energy. So I can't entirely agree with that statement.

Originally Posted by KY Metro

It's a fine point, I guess.....nevertheless, we would love to hear from some veggie oil guys!

Just FYI - Biodiesel is not the same as veggie oil... it is derived from veggie oil, but it is not veggie oil.

[Irukandji83]

I suppose I'm shocked because diesel engines are inherently more fuel efficient than gasoline engines for starters. The fact that bio-diesel reduces emissions significantly, increases the longevity of the engine because of it's lubricant qualities, can be sourced from non-food crops, all contributing to maintaining our environment and helping clean our air MUCH more than simply using a bit less petroleum. I don't get electric vehicles right now, I think it's much too soon. They put a bigger strain on our power grid charging up, with electricity sourced from coal burning plants and using expensive Li-ion batteries that have a negative effect on the environment during manufacturing and disposal(not a great impact, but still worth mentioning). I see the world adjusting much more easily and effectively to focusing on veggie powered combustion engines.

Who knows though? CD players cost in excess of $3,000 in the 80's when they debuted, but now they are almost obsolete. What will the technological surge wash up on our shores next? I'm not sure, so I'm sticking with exploding cooking oil to run my car......whenever I can afford to, ha!

[NachtRitter]

Originally Posted by Irukandji83

I know I'm super new to this forum and only been around a few hours, but this alternative fuel thread seems to be 100% about EV's and converting petrol powered vehicles into electric ones. Why is bio-diesel getting the cold shoulder? It's even mentioned in the thread's description but 10 pages in and I can't find anything relating to the 'other' alternative fuel, plant power! I don't know how people aren't half as excited about bio-diesel as I am....

Just purchased an older Jetta TDI with Biodiesel in mind. It's a good answer for diesel-powered vehicles since it has a minimal impact on the vehicle's FE, can be mixed with diesel, and can be used in most diesel engines with minimal (sometimes no) changes, but it's not yet the final answer. We simply can't make enough biodiesel from both the waste veggie oil and crops grown for veggie oil to make a noticeable dent in the diesel needed by this country.

I am looking forward to the results of the algae experiments going on now; that seems to be the most promising solution for large scale alternative fuel production. The algae can be grown nearly anywhere, can be harvested more or less continuously, and produces a much greater percentage of usable fuel per volume than any other crop.

[Irukandji83]

When I first read about fuel being created from algae it's didn't click for me. It was like someone had written an article about how they were making gold out of old copies of Time magazine. It was just too incredible and I couldn't comprehend it! The more I read the more it made sense, but it's still an absolutely amazing feat of modern science and technology. Talk about the ultimate 'green' fuel. *rim shot*

[KY Metro]

Originally Posted by NachtRitter

Folks come here for different reasons... fuel economy (using as little fuel as possible) is one, price economy (spending as little money for transportation) is another, ecological reasons (reduction of non-renewable resource use, and reduction of greenhouse and other non-desirable waste) is another. Biodiesel fits in there neatly, though I think few members are familiar enough with it to maintain a discussion.

That's exactly it. I think we would have more biodiesel discussions if there were more small diesels around. The big diesel trucks aren't as appealing to frugal commuters, because even at a higher total efficiency, the gas mileage is mediocre. You'd be makin' a lot of biodiesel, too.

I would like to read a thread like, "Why I came to EcoModder". I think all the many reasons would be interesting to read about.

I am here to learn about maximum fuel economy, because the methods seen here are fascinating.

As far as price economy, that is almost a separate topic.
Assuming a normal rate of 20,000 miles per year, with gas @ $3.00/gal.

~The actual fuel cost difference between 50 and 75 MPG is $343 per year.
~The jump from 20 to 50MPG by driving a Metro = $2800 a year, no aeromods or hypermiling.
~I could lower that cost another $343 dollars by simply driving 5,000 miles less in a year.

Or if I make 500 gallons of 180 proof moonshine using cattails and switchgrass, I could drive around for almost nothing.

The energy for electrics has to come from somewhere... Often from coal. An electric vehicle can use the energy just as inefficiently as a vehicle using any other kind of fuel as energy. So I can't entirely agree with that statement.

All I meant was that most of the electric cars we see are lightweight aerodynamic marvels, getting the most out of each watt, since energy storage is limited. Gas engines with those aero bodies would get very good mileage.

Just FYI - Biodiesel is not the same as veggie oil... it is derived from veggie oil, but it is not veggie oil.

I knew that. Just seeing if you were paying attention.

[Angelus359]

If I owned a diesel, I'd love biodiesel... But....

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by Irukandji83

I suppose I'm shocked because diesel engines are inherently more fuel efficient than gasoline engines for starters.

If I had kept driving 100+ miles each way to work then I would have bought a diesel, but I realized that it was a better choice to change my life so I could be 3 miles from work and 8 blocks or less from every where else I tend to go, Diesel vehicles have their place, diesel trucks are great and the people who I know who live in the middle of no where tend to drive diesel vehicles, but they don't work well for short trips, electric cars work well for short trips, gasoline hybrids seem to work well for the rest of the trips, things like delivery vehicles.

Originally Posted by Irukandji83

I don't get electric vehicles right now, I think it's much too soon. They put a bigger strain on our power grid charging up, with electricity sourced from coal burning plants and using expensive Li-ion batteries that have a negative effect on the environment during manufacturing and disposal(not a great impact, but still worth mentioning).
Who knows though? CD players cost in excess of $3,000 in the 80's when they debuted,

What is your source for this? who is saying that electric vehicles will put a strain on the grid? average car is driven 15,000 miles a year or 41 miles per day, electrical cost to charge that comes to a dollar per day, it's pretty easy to find ways to reduce the average persons electrical use by a dollar per day as Mr. and Ms. average American spend $110 per month on electricity when they don't need to.
I just went to a presentation on lithium batteries and it was stated that the largest environmental impact comes from the copper and aluminum in the battery, not the lithium and that the disposal is not an issue as there is no reason they can't be put in the trash... putting lithium batteries in the trash is stupid and wasteful but safe, alto in a I thik 600 pound lithium battery pack in a vehicle like the Nisson Leaf there is around 7 pounds of lithium, the rest of it is copper, aluminum and plastic.

Last of all my 1981 electric car cost around $4,000 new in 1981... of course it also used technology that was already 100 years old.