Build back better proposes 6 billion to electrify post office fleet 70%

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I didn't know that, but I was also thinking globally.

The Bolt sold in similar quantities and was not simply an ICE vehicle converted to EV.

There's usually reasons why things aren't different than they are, so that makes sense.

Wasn't it Musk that said new technology needs to be 20% better before people will abandon what they are used to?

If you go globally then you have WAY more manufacturers to the split volume and lots of different regulations. (US school bus regulations are VERY specific right down to where those rails that run down the side have to be located)

The Bolt wasn't just a converted ICE vehicle but it isn't a clean sheet EV design either. GM's BEV2 platform is the Gamma platform modified to accommodate a moderate sized battery in the floor. It is a 2nd gen product.

• Current electric school buses are the equivalent of the Spark EV. 1st gen - converted ICE
• Something like the eCascadia is more like the Bolt. 2nd gen - derived from an ICE platform but with more modifications and more custom components. (Like motors integrated into the drive axles)
• Given time (and volume) we will see clean sheet designs.

A Jouley is already more than 20% better than a diesel school bus - you just need to get districts to think about budgets over a decade instead of just year by year.

[redpoint5]

I've always wondered why products go through iterations rather than optimizing from the beginning.

For instance, there were many diameter increases in the silicon wafer industry. Perhaps it was a matter of technology needing to be developed to achieve each increase in size, but I often wondered why the theoretical optimum wasn't conceived of first, and then engineered to achieve that optimum. 450mm might be more efficient than 300mm, but the huge expense of building that infrastructure slows adoption and undermines the ROI of the previous process diameter.

Similarly, I wondered why hybrid technology first appeared in the least useful platforms to benefit from it rather than the most useful. There's practically no point in a hybrid drivetrain in the first Insight, for instance, as it's already a super efficient design without electrification.

My naive assumption is that someone who clean-sheet designed purpose built EV buses would dominate in all markets. The number of competitors matters less when a product is so clearly designed better than the competition. Tesla is an example of entering an established industry and finding huge success. I'm simply taking that approach and applying it to other niches.

[freebeard]

Cyberbus!

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Cyberbus!

Sadly, the assault style vehicles, especially the black painted fully automatic ones will be banned, precluding such a utilitarian vehicle from being developed. People's motivations are irrelevant, only the wickedness of inanimate objects can be considered.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I've always wondered why products go through iterations rather than optimizing from the beginning.

Cost and customer resistance.

A clean sheet monocoque EV bus design would cost hundreds of millions to design test and tool. That is a huge risk to take on an untested segment and would significantly add to the cost of each vehicle.

Also commercial customers hate change. They want to keep using their old tools, parts, and training.

[freebeard]

redpoint5 -- Quoth Just a Car Guy today:

what guys wanted, vs what the corporate management delivered



Am I right? Or completely mistaken?
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo...0411/page3696/

[JSH]

Originally Posted by freebeard

redpoint5 -- Quoth Just a Car Guy today:

Regular cabs trucks are down to 3% market share. It wouldn't surprise me if an extended cab was actually cheaper to manufacturer today than the regular cab just due to the tiny volume on regular cabs.

But of course most enthusiasts don't want to believe reality

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

redpoint5 -- Quoth Just a Car Guy today:

Of course, the prior is what I'd prefer when considering just my own interests, but the latter is what I'd choose today.

I've been going on a truck drive every other evening with my daughter now that I've got the S10 in good driving condition (she asks for it ever since I bribed her the first time with candy). My wife hasn't even sat in it while parked yet. It's a 2-seater with a jump seat, and my wife won't let the girl sit back there, and won't occupy the cramped space herself. So, car seat in the only passenger seat it is.

The Cybertruck appeals to me because it incorporates enough of my interest in play with the practicality of having 6 seats (4th family member in development). I give myself 20% odds of owning a used one at some point.

Somewhat recently I've added the Model Y with 3rd row seating, Model X, and Model S for consideration, but would really consider any PHEV/EV with 6+ seating.

I'm going Christmas tree hunting this weekend with 1 other family this weekend, and it occurs to me that we're no longer able to make the trip in a 5 passenger vehicle (3 + 3).

I drove a Dodge Grand Caravan for a week with my family and parents, and it seemed exactly right-sized for 5 persons and their belongings for the week.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Even though a clean-sheet design may have its advantages regarding some EV-specific conditions, resorting mostly to off-the-shelf components would make it easier for commercial operators (including state-owned companies such as post offices) to increase the usage of EVs and assimilate all the eventual changes to the maintenance routines. Cutting the R&D costs for manufacturers is another advantage which is hard to neglect.

On a sidenote, the 1st generation of the Mercedes-Benz A-Class was meant to be electric, relying on the weight of the batteries as some sort of ballast weight which could prevent the widely-reported failure at the moose test in '97 for the ICE-powered production model.

[Hersbird]

I am very happy the Gladiator is just a Wrangler with a bed. What we didn't need is another oversized 1/2 ton with a wheel and tire upgrade. The Gladiator is sized just right and super capable offroad. Just expensive, although not terrible if you just order the basic sport with only the Willys package.