Building a 100mpg consumer vehicle

[sgtlethargic]

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[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by bandit86

Put a little diesel inthe back. Kubota has nice little 2&3 cylinder diesels, 10-25 hp eforethey get really big and heavy The 10 hp would run for hours cutting grass on a gallon, very efficient

Yes I work on 900cc kubota diesel generators that run at 1800RPMs and put out 4kw continously for about 36 hours on 11 gallons of fuel.
I have been trying to get one to use as a generator for years.

[drmiller100]

The Zing is a different approach. I am actually ahead of that project in terms of build and layout. he will have a few surprises, but and I invite the owner/designer of that company to jump onto this thread, and I would be willing to discuss in order to both build a better car.

I have my basic frame laid out, motor mounts designed, steering completed, suspension pretty well ddsigned and laid out on the front. Rear suspension SHOULD be pretty simple.

The car keeps growing and growing.

True tandem seating has some pretty serious issues for mainstream Americans. The basic idea of sitting tandem really sucks for the back rider. If you don't believe me, my seat for my ass is over two feet wide, and most people, especially LADIES, don't want to sit down very long with their knees spread 2 feet apart.

So, we end up making the car wide enough to offset the passenger, and the passenger must be offset to the starboard side in the US. So, now the passenger can lay their legs out to the right side of the driver.

Will we have an emergency brake? Where will the handle be?

Will we have a 5 speed? if so, then the shifter must be on the right side of the driver.

Add that up, and pretty quickly we MUST have a door on both sides of the car.

Plus windows which roll up and down of course.

Add that up, and pretty soon the car gets even wider.

As for length, the steering rack sets the back of the engine, and needs a foot or two from front axle centerline.
Driver needs 4 feet of leg room to make pedals with a low car.
Passenger really ends up needing 3 feet of leg room unless you make the car taller.
Then you need a foot of clearance behind the passenger's behind and tire.
and the back tire is 24 inches tall, so another foot back to wheel centerline.

Pretty quickly 10 feet of wheel base is eaten up.

120 inch wheel base seems pretty long. But the back is a LOT narrower then the front, so it won't cut corners.
Steering is pretty sharp, so turn radius won't be truly ignorant.

And of course you have reverse.

I don't want diesel on this project. I have a diesel truck and if I wanted diesel, I'd just drive it around on the 55 cents per gallon I can do.

I want mainstream commuter car. Diesel is not an acceptable alternative in the US. If I can get 75 at 75 on gas and 100 combined, I'll be happy enough.

[Ryland]

The only Porsche I drove had the hand brake on the left side of the drivers seat tucked down so you didn't snag it getting in and out, not ideal but it worked, my commuti-car has the hand brake pull up right under the steering wheel, having it pull out of the dash like it is on pickup trucks is also an option, as I see it, the gear shift should be pretty far forward that it shouldn't be in the way of the passengers feet, if you are unsure of this try sitting in the back seat of a car that has the passenger seat removed and see how far forward your feet rest.

Do you have any photos of your progress so far?

[deathtrain]

i say build the car the for one and delete the passenger. That will be version 1 so for version 2 you can work out the things.

[drmiller100]

The passenger needs to sit on the starboard side of the car.

If we have one door, it is not realistic to put it on the port side - the passenger would then have to lift their feet up to their chin to get their feet over to the starboard side.

So, we put the door on the starboard side. If we put the only door on the starboard side, then the gear shift and emergency brake are in the way of the driver getting in and out. The e-brake we can move around a bit, but the gear shift is a PITA anywhere else for a 5 speed.

an electric car will not have these issues.

[Diesel_Dave]

Interesting project.

In your original post you call it a "consumer car". How are you defining "consumer"?

Originally Posted by drmiller100

Diesel is not an acceptable alternative in the US.

What's your basis for this statement? Noise? Weight? Just curious.

The important unadressed question I see is, what is about your vehicle that going to be different and thus give you 100 mpg? It looks like your going to have a stock engine, stock frontal area & weight (as compared to say a Geo Metro). I guess you can improve the aero some from stock. Where are all these extra mpgs going to come from?

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

Interesting project.

In your original post you call it a "consumer car". How are you defining "consumer"?



What's your basis for this statement? Noise? Weight? Just curious.

The important unadressed question I see is, what is about your vehicle that going to be different and thus give you 100 mpg? It looks like your going to have a stock engine, stock frontal area & weight (as compared to say a Geo Metro). I guess you can improve the aero some from stock. Where are all these extra mpgs going to come from?

not a stock engine. Lean burn is for sure in the works, as well as a few other tricks.

frontal area should be half of a metro.
drag coefficient should be pretty good as well.
weight should be in the 1000 pound range (I am hoping).
aero should be a LOT better then a stock metro, or even a honda.
rolling drag should be only 75 percent of a metro.

will I get 100mpg? hard to say. Can I double a honda CX with half the weight and half the frontal area and only 3 wheels?

Makes it fun to try!

as for diesel, most consumers won't put up with them.

[Ladogaboy]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

most people, especially LADIES, don't want to sit down very long with their knees spread 2 feet apart.

Depends on the ride.

In all seriousness, though... Since you're obviously looking to work within a budget, have you considered finding yourself an old VW chassis (bug or Karmann Ghia); installing a high-efficiency motor; and doing a custom, aero body redesign? They are already laid out for a rear engine/rear drive, so you can do almost anything you want to clean up the aero on the front.

Also, if I were in your shoes, I'd be asking myself if I could do better myself than just getting a used Insight. Then again, maybe it's not big enough/spacious enough?

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by Ryland

The only Porsche I drove had the hand brake on the left side of the drivers seat tucked down so you didn't snag it getting in and out...

So, did you like driving that 914?

-soD