Busting the non believers

[Blue Bomber Man]

Two years ago congress funded a tire study on rolling resistance. The study is a bit boring, but extremely informative.

Tires and Passenger Vehicle Fuel Economy: Informing Consumers, Improving Performance -- Special Report 286

Regarding Tire pressure:

"For typical passenger tires inflated to pressures of 24 to 36 pounds per square inch (psi), each 1-psi drop in inflation pressure will increase rolling resistance by about 1.4 percent. Hence, a drop in pressure from 32 to 24 psi—a significant degree of underinflation that would not be apparent by casually viewing the shape of the tire—increases a tire’s rolling resistance by more than 10 percent. At pressures below 24 psi, rolling resistance increases even more rapidly with declining inflation pressure. "

This indicates a significant change in efficiency by maintaining high tire pressure.

Other relevant things of interest:

-It will soon be easy to find a reliable rating for RRC (rolling resistance coefficient) on tires
-A tire's RRC improves with wear, due to loss of tread. The tread is responsible for significant tire deformaties that generate heat (read: energy loss)
-According to a survey of approx. 150 tires by 3 major manufactures, 16" wheels tend to have the best overall average RRC (on a side note, the lowest rating was .0065ish from what I think was only a 14" tire, maybe 15")
-RRC range of the study was .0065 to .0150, with average around .0100
-The study found that OE tires generally had significantly lower RRC values, likely due to manufactures trying to meet EPA CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) regulations
-Only 13% of the spent fuel energy reaches the wheelsin urban driving, of this: 3% goes to overcome aerodynamic drag, 7% to overcome rolling resistance, and the rest goes to breaking at 6%(I presume this really accounting for acceleration, but I'm not sure). Highway driving 20% of energy reaches the wheel with this break down, 11%, 7%, 2%. Notice how much more effiencient the system is on the highway with regards of energy reaching the wheel. Also of interest is the obvious increase in air resistance loss (also important to note, that all though air resistance went from 7 to 11%, the energy increase being used for over coming air resistance is more then 4% due to an increase in spent fuel).
This link shows more information for the above: Tires and Passenger Vehicle Fuel Economy: Informing Consumers, Improving Performance -- Special Report 286

The two links posted reference different pages of the same report.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Great success story, trikkonceptz !

I've got a little success story for you...

I work with a couple of hundred ppl on a daily basis, and have the opportunity to participate in lots of 30 second conversations, in passing - kind of like a chessmaster playing 30 opponents at once! The way it works is, "Hold that thought, and I'll get back to you later." Sooo... I often have 30 conversations 'going on' at the same time, and each conversation is different.

Having said that, there are certain ppl that I talk to about ECO Driving...

Here's my 'little success story': A guy I talk to about FE came up to me the other night and said, "Hey, you know what? I went from 16 MPG to 20 MPG by simply driving my truck less aggressive." I looked at him, and he was beaming with pride - like he'd REALLY done something great.

Inside my mind, I was thinking, "Big deal!". However, when I was thinking about it later, my lasting impression was, dude, that guy just improved his FE +25% - on his own!!!

And, that's the way it starts, isn't it?

Your success story is great - but IMHO the moral is - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink! What you need to do with ppl (and horses) is make them think it's THEIR idea. If they think it's YOUR idea, you're sunk!

Independent thinking is a rarity these days, but it’s a bare necessity when hoping to see and act clearly. And, clearly, the independent and fast-thinking Tom Sawyer - the smart-aleck kid whose adventures were brought to life in the book by Mark Twain - made whitewashing his fence look like such a blast that he was able to dupe all his friends into doing this tedious job for him while he kicked-back, soaked in the sun, and simply watched.

In the end, I think an iconic and metaphorical "green picket fence" needs to become the symbol embodying our attempts to convert ppl over to 'our' way of thinking - rather than 'whitewashing' them with a demonstration of how 'bad' they are.

Would you not agree?

[bgd73]

repeat, repost, whatever it is...


sometimes its not about non-believing. I am a mellow ecomodder, starting with an infamous driveline is my only prerequisite..

hence one of my many stories that will leave me and inline engines apart forever:

I was asked to drive a geo tracker (2 liter 4x4) . I thought "great. this may be something to evolve into, wouldn't mind trying it."

.25 of a tank of fuel, had maybe 50 miles to next stop following as I was asked. As the curse goes with me and the worlds worst driveline called "an inline four"... I ran out of fuel halfway there. I was so surprised I stuck my nose in and around fuel areas to check for leaks. It went below 10mpg without even tooling on the throttle...

the only thing we could conclude is the bumps and dips on the concrete highway pounded the fuel out of the injection...amazing.

If your inline is bad, it really is. I have said this time and time again: They need to be outlawed to catch up to real math, and real knowledge, and real drivetrains that leave old timers still scratching thier heads, as 50 year old cars and trucks did better than some of todays japanese ricing ripoffs claiming economical.honda being enemy #1 on the hipocrisy list.

2 liter inline? allow me to blow your doors off like a hillbilly in a 3500 pound v8 and prove better gas mileage...

[Geebee]

"as 50 year old cars and trucks did better than some of todays japanese ricing ripoffs claiming economical.honda being enemy #1 on the hipocrisy list."

Provide some examples please?

[Clev]

Originally Posted by Geebee

"as 50 year old cars and trucks did better than some of todays japanese ricing ripoffs claiming economical.honda being enemy #1 on the hipocrisy list."

Provide some examples please?

Any V8 from 1958 got mileage in the low teens, polluted like a lawnmower, required an act of Congress to start in cold weather and had to be rebuilt every 45,000 miles. My cheap reliable Japanese ripoff 35 mpg inline 4 with 278,000 miles, built in Marysville, Ohio, simply can't compete.

[jamesqf]

My cheap Japanese ripoff inline 3 is going strong at 130K miles, averaging over 70 mpg. The cheap Japanese ripoff inline 4 in the 4WD pickup is still going strong after 20 years and 200K miles. The cheap Japanese ripoff inline 4 in the CRX had about 250K when I sold it....

You ever stop to think that maybe the problem with the Tracker was the gas gauge? Or maybe you, for believing it?

[Clev]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

My cheap Japanese ripoff inline 3 is going strong at 130K miles, averaging over 70 mpg. The cheap Japanese ripoff inline 4 in the 4WD pickup is still going strong after 20 years and 200K miles. The cheap Japanese ripoff inline 4 in the CRX had about 250K when I sold it....

You ever stop to think that maybe the problem with the Tracker was the gas gauge? Or maybe you, for believing it?

The last vehicle I owned that got 10 mpg was an 85 F250 with a 460 and a 4-speed stick that was geared such that the engine roared at 3,000 RPM at 65 mph--and that was only when pulling a trailer. For a Tracker to get 10 mpg, it must have been dragging a frozen wheel.

[BlackDeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Clev

The last vehicle I owned that got 10 mpg was an 85 F250 with a 460... For a Tracker to get 10 mpg, it must have been dragging a frozen wheel.

Heh!

I got a '00 Ford F-250 Super Duty with a 6.8L V-10 (413 CID) and a full tow package (can tow anything) that gets 12-13 MPG on the road.

LoL! 38 gallon gas tank, BTW...

[extragoode]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

You ever stop to think that maybe the problem with the Tracker was the gas gauge? Or maybe you, for believing it?

I had my s10 for 10 years and my gas gauge lied to me exactly ONCE! Not for 6 years before and not for 4 years after. I was like wow, I've got almost 400 miles on this tank (I usually got about 450 if I stretched it) and still have over a quarter left (a quarter tank was always 3 gallons, I remember estimating I had about 80 miles left). I ran out of gas going up the next hill. I remember it clearly as it was the first time I had to walk to get more gas and get home. I don't know why it stuck just that one time. Crazy stuff happens. This was an inline 4, 2.2 liter that had almost 180k miles on it when I sold it. I never did any drive train work on it outside of maintenance, unless you count the chronic starter failure, but that's why I always drive a stick, there are so many more options than proper operation.

[wagonman76]

Every one of my cars, past and present, read differently. Despite most of them having the same tank and sender. Sometimes with the old 6000 wagon youd be out of gas at 1/8 tank. Ive learned to trust my trip odometer over my gas gauge.