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Old 02-03-2013, 04:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'd vote for an engine swap or at least fuel injection.
It seems like it might be a decent vehicle to try to fit a diesel engine from a frieghtliner van, those are pretty small 2.2L turbo diesels if I remember right and have plenty of power to push a big van around while getting over 25mpg.

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Old 02-03-2013, 04:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
Yes......sell it! (jezzzz........)

You sell it to a boy from the hood.
He wants 'dubs'
He gets finasncing at the local rim shop and pays $3000 for 22" rims and tires. (ps europe....waste of material!!!!.........'sell it'..........)
he also gets teribble mileage.
The the car is repo'd because he cant make payments on the rims......
(should I go on...........)
you buy another car.........more waste.
Well - he could also swop it with a small FE car - what ever....
Point beeing - that by doing so - he would save a lot of $ right away.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Over at the Jeep forums some people would ask how to improve fuel economy... I always hated when there was a reply to sell it and buy an econobox.

I'm sure the OP knows that by selling it and buying a different vehicle one can get better fuel economy but that isn't what the OP asked.

"Original EPA was 17/23, revised is 15/21. Is 18/25 too far off, maybe 20/27.
Lets trim some weight off this piggy and see what she can do."

That to me says the OP wants to experiment with ways to achieve better fuel economy than the EPA says. Isn't that what we all want to do here? This forum would be very boring if every answer to the question "how do I improve my gas mileage?" was "buy a more fuel efficient car"...
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yes Razor - improving any cars FE, or try to do so, is much better than doing noting. I agree. But depending om the miles covered per year, it might be better to sell the gas guzzler and by a small car - economically that is.... Also CO2 wise....

Almost any car can be improved - as shown many times here at ECOmodder, point beeing that car manufactors could do a lot better, but don't dues to beeing afraid that cars might not sell well if they look to odd.....

Ecomodder is about many things, saving fuel and money, doing someting for the environment etc. People motives vary.

Personally I like the econoboxes - so does my wallet....
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyden View Post
Yes Razor - improving any cars FE, or try to do so, is much better than doing noting. I agree. But depending om the miles covered per year, it might be better to sell the gas guzzler and by a small car - economically that is.... Also CO2 wise....

Almost any car can be improved - as shown many times here at ECOmodder, point beeing that car manufactors could do a lot better, but don't dues to beeing afraid that cars might not sell well if they look to odd.....

Ecomodder is about many things, saving fuel and money, doing someting for the environment etc. People motives vary.

Personally I like the econoboxes - so does my wallet....
That isn't my point. If you asked someone "hey I want to make my old house more efficient" how would you feel if they said "tear it down and build another"...?

Sure you can have a more efficient house by replacing it but there are massive improvements you can do to make the house that is bought and paid for more efficient... Just like you can make a bought and paid for car more efficient.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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@mad mike I also have a g body it is an 84 cutllass. it has has a built 403 olds in it with the 2.41 gears in it, on the highway it does great 22 mpg, in town about 10. with the right motor combination 20/25 mpg should not be a problem.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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1. Get some lightweight aftermarket wheels. You have the most common bolt pattern for any older car, 5x4.75 inches. A used set of Weld or Centerline wheels will save you probably at least 10 pounds of rotational mass per wheel.

2. Electric fan. Lose the factory clutch fan. Electric fuel pump will help too.

3. Lower it. All G-Bodys look better lowered a bit anyway lol.

4. If you want to spend more money, then an aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, and aluminum intake manifold.

5. Pull the carpet, and take out all the sound deadener, then replace the carpet. That stuff is heavy, especially is the inside of the car has ever gotten wet, it soaks up water and holds it.

6. If the vehicle was not going to be used on a public road *cough cough*, I will say that the hydraulic struts that the bumpers attach to are really heavy, they compress in an accident. I have heard that people remove them and replace them with a simple piece of aluminum or steel. Said people have also been know to cut the steel crash bars out from behind the bumpers (which are already steel), and some even the impact beams out of the doors. They are 20 or so pounds a piece. Apparently. But such actions are obviously irresponsible!!
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The tone in this thread reflects badly on this forum. I'm going to edit/delete some posts now, on both sides. (Benevolent dictator, that's me.)

We can disagree without being insulting or getting political.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Some of these suggestions could be considered a bit "extreme" by some (swap in a diesel engine & manual trans, for example). I looked back and saw MADMIKE, the OP, only posted the once and didn't give any indication of "how far" he was willing to go.

However, it looked like his MPG goals weren't "crazy", just a couple more than EPA. As we all know, beating EPA shouldn't be too terribly tough without going "crazy".
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:30 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmjinman View Post
Trimming weight will help most in stop-and-go city driving. Cutting aerodynamic drag will help most for highway cruising. Maxxing-out the tire inflation will help both.
Already have started on the weight savings, some early variants came with aluminum hood, and bumpers. These have already been installed with about a weight savings of ~60#s if not more. The hood alone was ~55lbs and the replacement is only 21lbs, according to the trusty bathroom scale. Bumpers were harder to balance on the scale due to shape. The significant change was apparent on the backroads, less plowing, more carving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyden View Post
Why bother? Sell the thing (or give it away) and get a small FE frindly car. Both cheaper and better for the environment!
Says the guy who is only getting ~37MPG in a Yaris. I thought those things were rated 32/38.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrews View Post
Yes......sell it! (jezzzz........)
What about a desiel replacement at some point?
*snicker*
I think I'll be looking up your posts for mods of a fellow 3000+lb V8 powered brick
As for diesel, meh. It would be nice to avoid the bi-annual smog inspection, and these cars did have the notorious diesel V8s which would be a drop in, but it would need massive amounts of modification of the original induction and fuel system to make it work like a proper diesel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksa8907 View Post
My opinion is swap in an obd2 engine and ecu if possible, the advanced computer controls will make a big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownugly View Post
Lax swap!!! For economy I vote for a junkyard 4.8 or 5.3 backed by a 6 speed and decent rear gear. Maybe 3.08 or 3.20's?
...Or is reusing the original engine eliminate all the smog stuff and add a better flowing intake/carb with better flowing exhaust. Manual trans conversion.
Engine conversion is tempting with the LSx series. I always did enjoy being in the later 4th gen F bods with a 6 gear. Cruising at 80MPH with the engine burbling along at 1700 rpm with 3.42s was always neat.
Smog components must be maintained, '76-present vehicles still have a bi-annual test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRU View Post
It's simple, it's heavy and not aero dynamic...
Compared to other, even newer RWD coupes, it's not that heavy. As for aerodynamics, it is actually a fairly sleek body. 1987 Cutlass profile*link disabled*, and the nose on the 87-88 is more rounded than the earlier brick face 81-86s *link disabled*
I will most likely be looking into cleaning up the undertray of the car, although my main concern is not causing heat issues with the catalyst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
First off welcome to the forum....
If you haven't already started doing so start keeping detailed records of your fill ups and mileage. You can calculate MPG and get a ballpark average. The first mod you should think about is to do a "driver mod". See the 100+ hypermiling tips we have here..

Since you have a carb try a vacuum gauge
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRMichler View Post
+1 to what Razor02097 said.

Your car is lighter than my truck and has less frontal area. You have a less efficient engine and (I'm guessing) an automatic transmission, but that just gives you more opportunity for improvement.

Good records + persistence is the key.
Thanks fellas.
Have gone over the 100tips, however some of the tricks are not applicable to the car due to the emissions control/auto transmission. A manual conversion would be the ticket.
Installed a Vac gauge for diagnostic/engine health reasons, but more recently has become a MPG device.
I already go shoeless, but that was more for brake feel/modulation. And the car came with a block heater.

As for aero, I have a few ideas. It is fairly easy to get this car into the triple digits without even realizing. A highway cruiser for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
Over at the Jeep forums some people would ask how to improve fuel economy... I always hated when there was a reply to sell it and buy an econobox.
Thanks razor02097 my feelings exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmodified1 View Post
@mad mike I also have a g body it is an 84 cutllass. it has has a built 403 olds in it with the 2.41 gears in it, on the highway it does great 22 mpg, in town about 10. with the right motor combination 20/25 mpg should not be a problem.
Heh, yeah I have a few Rockets lying around. The nasty idea of using the swirl port 307 heads on the 403, backed by a Th2004R and keeping the 2.14s has been dancing in my head. I take I5 to L.A. from the Bay Area from time to time. Cruising at a svelte 80MPH while farting along at 1500rpm has me intrigued.
I did have a '79 Calais with the 260 TH200 and 2.56:1 rear. 29MPG was not that hard to attain on the freeway. It had Al bits all over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
1. Get some lightweight aftermarket wheels.
I actually have been looking but surprisingly the size and offset I would desire are not readily available, heavier than anticipated, or are cost prohibitive. The 'pro touring' trend has killed any normal size wheels.
I thought I could find some AL donut spares and have them modified for a wider hoop/tread. I know Fords came with AL spares but I have yet to stumble upon a GM 5 x 4.75" variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
2. Electric fan. Lose the factory clutch fan. Electric fuel pump will help too.
The delco clutch fan when off freewheels very easily. I cannot justify replacing that just yet. Now the fuel pump would offer a few advantages, including security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
3. Lower it. All G-Bodys look better lowered a bit anyway lol.
Already 1" lower

Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
4. If you want to spend more money, then an aluminum driveshaft, aluminum radiator, and aluminum intake manifold.
I have been looking into a driveshaft. The Camaros of this era used AL rads that do bolt in, however If I can, I avoid plastic tank rads like the plague. Intake is AL from the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
5. Pull the carpet, and take out all the sound deadener, then replace the carpet. That stuff is heavy, especially is the inside of the car has ever gotten wet, it soaks up water and holds it.
Replaced the carpet a while ago, the old one was about 20lbs heavier with no visibile reason except it probably has accumilated that much grime over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by War_Wagon View Post
6. If the vehicle was not going to be used on a public road *cough cough*...
Actually, these cars need a bit of added bracing to keep them from being so sloppy. Removes the vagueness of the car. I will need to maintain the bumper shocks as there are plenty of klutzs on the road. Most folks think they can play bumper car while parking due to the metal bumpers
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmjinman View Post
the OP, only posted the once and didn't give any indication of "how far" he was willing to go.

However, it looked like his MPG goals weren't "crazy", just a couple more than EPA. As we all know, beating EPA shouldn't be too terribly tough without going "crazy".
Well I'm not going to gut the interior that is for sure. It does have the awful 'Brougham' pillow seats stuck in permanent recline. Which would be nice to get rid of and replace with factory buckets or maybe some ProCar units.

This ain't no Anal Probe!

Currently the goal is modesty, although aero modifications to the nose are going to be the first visible improvements. I have gathered a few air dams to mess with and a few sheets of plywood(can't think of the technical name) for splitter/undertray work. Along with fender vents borrowed from the GNX crowd, luckily the body lines of the Regal/Cutlass are similar in some aspects.

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