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Old 11-25-2015, 06:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Can a FWD Transaxle have 2 inputs?

This is something I have long wondered but why doesn't anyone extend the main cog that comes off the input shaft and add a direct drive connection to electrically drive the car?

So basically on the OPPOSITE side of a manual transaxle, opposite the clutch and input shaft you could extend the main shaft through a bearing on the other side and have a direct drive location for an electric motor.

After looking at my extra honda insight transaxle I wonder why this couldn't be designed in.

Would eliminate all the issues the gen I honda has (in terms of regen while the motor was running) and it also would allow for pure electric drive without spinning the motor.

Any ideas how this could be made workable?

I think a machine shop should could possible add in this feature along with an appropriately bored splined end and race and bearing kit, would also have to add a seal.

Just curious
Thanx
Ryan

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Old 11-25-2015, 09:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Looking at your extra trans... checked if that point on the trans installed in the car gives you a useful location?
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Most car's that's up against the shock tower. Most cars just ain't wide enough.

Makes more sense to add electricity where you already have space... at the starter motor. Replace the starter with something bigger, beef up the flywheel, and you've got hybrid assist. Lay out the new, bigger motor over the transmission, where you have a space that manufacturers usually stuff with intake tubes and batteries... both of which can be moved aside.
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Old 11-26-2015, 12:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Why would you want pure electric drive with such a small battery capacity?

Seems like this is a solution in search of a problem. Either you have something like the Volt, with a much larger battery and the IC engine serving as a range extender, or you have an IMA-like system that just assists with acceleration, allowing the IC engine to be smaller and more efficient. There's not really a middle ground. And with the IMA design, you get to have a manual transmission.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I wonder whatever happened to that Indian device (Revolo) that works like IMA? They were promising "mild" hybrid capability retrofitting for regular cars via belt drive installed on the crank pulley side, rather than the tranny side.
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:24 AM   #6 (permalink)
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didn't coyote x do something with the easy access 5th gear housing?

<searches>

hmm: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...html#post93076 I think he was driving the wheel, I swear I remember someone driving the shaft from the 5th gear lump though.

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Old 11-26-2015, 11:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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A setup similar to the one used in the BMW ActiveHybrid7, with the electric motor placed where a torque converter (or a clutch if you'd rather use it in a car with manual transmission), is what you might be wanting. OTOH, integrating it with the electric system of the Insight might be a PITA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
Makes more sense to add electricity where you already have space... at the starter motor. Replace the starter with something bigger, beef up the flywheel, and you've got hybrid assist.
Much like the BAS-Hybrid setup used by GM and branded as eAssist? But the OP wants the ability to run only on electric power, and it's still not possible to do so with a BAS-Hybrid.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
Most car's that's up against the shock tower. Most cars just ain't wide enough.
As is no, however if I were to take my G1 Honda Insight XMSN and put it into something else, I would estimate I would have plenty of room and then some to spare.

Its unfortunate but yeah it does appear to be challenging but its because of how the car was designed up front, but the second part of my question always was why didn't the manufacturers just do this in the first place?

It seems simple, cheap, reliable and it could bypass the prius patents (by that irritating russian guy) and allow MT electric hybrids.

Ah well.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
This is something I have long wondered but why doesn't anyone extend the main cog that comes off the input shaft and add a direct drive connection to electrically drive the car?

So basically on the OPPOSITE side of a manual transaxle, opposite the clutch and input shaft you could extend the main shaft through a bearing on the other side and have a direct drive location for an electric motor.

After looking at my extra honda insight transaxle I wonder why this couldn't be designed in.

Would eliminate all the issues the gen I honda has (in terms of regen while the motor was running) and it also would allow for pure electric drive without spinning the motor.

Any ideas how this could be made workable?

I think a machine shop should could possible add in this feature along with an appropriately bored splined end and race and bearing kit, would also have to add a seal.

Just curious
Thanx
Ryan
I have always though the same thing with rear wheel drive by hanging a motor off the back of the differential.
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Old 11-28-2015, 03:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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rwd might be a good fit for a big honkin series wound since it can't regen anyway, but without the brush current to maintain the commutator film, the brushes will will wear a lot faster (assuming the armature is just freewheeling when not powered).

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