Car & Driver disses buying old economy cars to save fuel

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Well somebody needs to worn people away from these death traps.

What about motorcycles, there Bud? 100x more likely to die in a accident.

Here is another story about the same issue U.S. News

[SuperTrooper]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Agreed! I want $8 gas too, and it won't come soon enough.

Do you have any idea what $8 gas would do to the national economy? The people it would put out of work? The price increases in food and anything else that has to be moved by truck? What about the impact on the poor who struggle to fill their tank now to get to work? I guess that's okay so you can push your agenda down America's throat.

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

Do you have any idea what $8 gas would do to the national economy? The people it would put out of work? The price increases in food and anything else that has to be moved by truck? What about the impact on the poor who struggle to fill their tank now to get to work? I guess that's okay so you can push your agenda down America's throat.

Take a deep breath. Try to look at it this way: $8+ a gallon gasoline would go a long way toward forcing people to find new sources of energy, so that perhaps we could finally move away from oil and on to cleaner, cheaper, renewable fuels that won't be subject to wild price fluctuations due to circumstances totally beyond our control. That would be a good thing, yes? It would hurt in the short term, but it would ultimately be for the best.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

I guess that's okay so you can push your agenda down America's throat.

Try to keep things civil, please.

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

Do you have any idea what $8 gas would do to the national economy? The people it would put out of work? The price increases in food and anything else that has to be moved by truck? What about the impact on the poor who struggle to fill their tank now to get to work? I guess that's okay so you can push your agenda down America's throat.

+1 !!

I have to agree .... wishing for $8 gas, is like wishing for nuclear war "so people will finally realize nukes are a bad thing!"

[Bicycle Bob]

During WW II, Londoners who lost their homes slept where they worked. The U.S. hasn't even gotten serious about Car Pooling, for heaven's sake! With a good ID card system, it is safe and effective for any car to work as a jitney taxi wherever it goes. Rezoning and using bicycles are obvious ways to restructure. Now, there are even electric bikes to make the transition easy. Interestingly, it takes about ten calories of oil to produce one calorie of food, so bikes are best powered on local, organic food, with electricity coming out ahead of "fast" food.

[Bicycle Bob]

[QUOTE=tjts1;63837]
Fuel economy isn't everything. If you have the unfortunate experience to to colide with any of the 2003+ cars that use a high percentage of high strength steel, you're toast. I'm not even talking about heavy SUVs. Just normal cars.

Could you tell us more about this new high-strength steel? For the last century, anything affordable traded strength for toughness, and Tough is what counts in a crash. It would not be difficult or expensive to leave more carbon in any steel and harden it to four times the regular strength, but it would shatter like a file on impact.

[SuperTrooper]

Originally Posted by Formula413

Take a deep breath. Try to look at it this way: $8+ a gallon gasoline would go a long way toward forcing people to find new sources of energy, so that perhaps we could finally move away from oil and on to cleaner, cheaper, renewable fuels that won't be subject to wild price fluctuations due to circumstances totally beyond our control. That would be a good thing, yes? It would hurt in the short term, but it would ultimately be for the best.

So, if fuel does go up to $8 tomorrow but new energy sources are a decade or more away how widespread do you think the suffering would be? With the community outreach work I do with my lodge brothers I see how tough it is for many people and heating season isn't really here yet! With an economy that is so tied to energy costs there would be dire unintended consequences from such a narrow point of view.

We've already seen the result of "unintended consequences" with ethanol made from corn. Corn prices have risen, which has effects all the way up the food chain. The biggest losers have been people in other countries who rely on inexpensive corn (mostly grown here) as a basic foodstuff.

Hey, I want cheap, clean, renewable fuel as much as anybody, but I'm unwilling to burden a significant portion of the population while I wait for it to happen. Time will eventually bring us more of the energy we want, but trying to force the issue with energy price hikes will upset an already tenuously balanced economic apple cart. We have enough economic problems without doubling the price of energy.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by tasdrouille

Don't you have an E30? Which year was it already?

If you don't like the message, kill the messenger. Typical extremist response. I'm not the one poopooing this article. If you can afford a newer, safer car, buy it. Its far more important than fuel economy. I certainly didn't buy my 91 318i or my 96 volvo 850 wagon for fuel economy but I make the best of what I have. There are plenty of small safe cars being built today. Buying a geo metro purely because it gets 10 more mpg than the average small car built in the last 5 years is insane.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/databas...abase=V&type=R
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/databas...abase=V&type=R

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

I'd say that as long as a driver is cautious and doesn't hit anything as well as minimizes their chances of getting t-boned, they'll probably be much safer in a couple decade old econobox than they would be in if drove like anyone else in a newer car.

If it all comes down to cautious driving, why have car makers put so much effort into airbags, brakes, ABS, structural rigidity, stability control, seat belt pretensioners, etc in the last 15 years? I absolutely agree that driving habits are extremely important to over all safety. But even the safest driver won't be able to avoid every accident. While amount of driving has increased by every possible metric over the last 15 years, the fatality rate per number of miles driven, total population, number of vehicles registered and number of drivers has decrease dramatically.
FARS Encyclopedia
Are we supposed to believe that drivers today are that much more cautious and all the technological advancements were a waste of time? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by bbjsw10

What about motorcycles, there Bud? 100x more likely to die in a accident.

I'm not pushing anyone to ride a motorcycle bud. Certainly not to take their kids to school or commute in stop and go traffic every single day. If you have a point to make about motorcycles, make it.

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

Could you tell us more about this new high-strength steel? For the last century, anything affordable traded strength for toughness, and Tough is what counts in a crash. It would not be difficult or expensive to leave more carbon in any steel and harden it to four times the regular strength, but it would shatter like a file on impact.

No problem.
High strength steel for safety: Japanese automakers use high strength steel and new crash technology to make small cars safer | Automotive Industries | Find Articles at BNET
High-Strength Steels Advance in Cars - 2007-03-22 07:37:00 - Design News
AUTOSTEEL | ULSAB: Working High-Strength Steel into Automotive Design

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by SuperTrooper

Do you have any idea what $8 gas would do to the national economy? The people it would put out of work? The price increases in food and anything else that has to be moved by truck? What about the impact on the poor who struggle to fill their tank now to get to work? I guess that's okay so you can push your agenda down America's throat.

Yes, I do have some idea. And I'm OK with it.