Cash for Clunkers results

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I swung by the local Ford dealer today and looked at "clunker row".

It was very disappointing to say the least.

There were several trucks just like mine that looked to me like they had many many miles left in 'em. Some mini-vans and a nice looking Jeep too.

But the one that really REALLY ticked me off was the super-clean '89 F150 that some retired farmer brought in. The salesman was out there with me and he said the 85 year old guy (now) bought it new. It's a beautiful truck- no rust, no dents except on the tailgate, nice paint, heck, hardly any wear anywhere. I'm looking for a plow truck and this one would be the ultimate. But it's gonna be crushed instead.

What a joke.

Here's a thought experiment. Would you have liked it better if they had created a provision to recycle healthy clunkers (aka clean emissions and strong drivetrains) to people with still worse MPG? The idea is, keep trading the "higher MPG" vehicle for the "lower MPG" vehicle until you have upgraded the whole vehicle inventory.

CarloSW2

[evolutionmovement]

I saw almost all Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokees being hauled on the highway. Of the rest, the majority were other Chrysler products. Makes sense as they're clunkers from new.

The junk yards here are full, too. The parts are recyclable, except the engine, of course. Sucks, though for some of the decent cars that still had a serviceable life to them. I don't know why they couldn't have had some sort of evaluation part of the bill where the still-decent cars could be donated to woman's shelters or something similar.

I don't think this had anything to do with emissions or oil dependency—it was just a convoluted bailout for the dealers and a further help to the car makers (this time, foreign and domestic, whatever that means anymore).

[dcb]

Originally Posted by cfg83

The idea is, keep trading the "higher MPG" vehicle for the "lower MPG" vehicle until you have upgraded the whole vehicle inventory.

CarloSW2

I like that idea, allows non clunker taxpayers incentive to buy.

Problem though is it may not really target 'murrican manufacturers if the new cars that are being bought are mostly of the high mpg sort, so it probably would have created a lot of grumbling and huffing.

[cfg83]

dcb -

Originally Posted by dcb

I like that idea, allows non clunker taxpayers incentive to buy.

Problem though is it may not really target 'murrican manufacturers if the new cars that are being bought are mostly of the high mpg sort, so it probably would have created a lot of grumbling and huffing.

I think I mean something different :

Round 1 : CFC works as it already has. Now there is a set of traded-in clunkers.

Round 2 : Identify the clunkers that are in good or better condition. These become "certified for trade in" on vehicles that are even "clunkier" than them. "clunkier" could be vehicles with worse MPG or tired drivetrains. This second set of buyers don't get a new car, but they do get a higher MPG car with a stronger drivetrain.

Round 3 : Repeat Round 2 until it's not worth the effort.

The idea is to save the vehicles that still have a useful service life. I think that would mollify the main complaint against the CFC, aka why crush a good engine?

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

WASHINGTON – The most common deals under the government's $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program, aimed at putting more fuel-efficient cars on the road, replaced old Ford or Chevrolet pickups with new ones that got only marginally better gas mileage, according to an analysis of new federal data by The Associated Press.

The single most common swap — which occurred more than 8,200 times — involved Ford 150 pickup owners who took advantage of a government rebate to trade their old trucks for new Ford 150s. They were 17 times more likely to buy a new F150 than, say, a Toyota Prius. The fuel economy for the new trucks ranged from 15 mpg to 17 mpg based on engine size and other factors, an improvement of just 1 mpg to 3 mpg over the clunkers.

Owners of thousands more large old Chevrolet and Dodge pickups bought new Silverado and Ram trucks, also with only barely improved mileage in the middle teens, according to AP's analysis of sales of $15.2 billion worth of vehicles at nearly 19,000 car dealerships in every state. Those deals helped the Ford 150 and Chevy Silverado — along with Ford's Escape midsize SUV — climb into the Top 10 most-popular vehicles purchased with the government rebates. The most common truck-for-truck and truck-for-SUV deals totaled at least $911 million.

In scores of deals, the government reported spending a total of $562,500 in rebates for new cars and trucks that got worse or the same mileage as the trade-ins — in apparent violation of the program's requirements. The government said it is investigating those reports and said in some cases they were probably entered incorrectly by dealers or based on outdated fuel economy figures.

The new data, obtained by the AP under the Freedom of Information Act, include details of 677,081 clunker trade-ins processed by the government through Oct. 16. More than 95,000 of the new vehicles purchased under the program — or about one in seven — got less than 20 mpg, according to the data.

The new figures, requested four months ago by the AP, represent the first substantial outside accounting of the clunkers program, lauded by the White House and the Transportation Department for improving fuel economy, stimulating sales and taking the dirtiest vehicles off the road. The data show the average fuel economy was 15.8 mpg for the old vehicles and 24.9 for the new ones. But plenty of consumers bought relatively low-mileage trucks and SUVs with the help of government checks.

"If we're looking for the environmental story here, we're going to be disappointed," said Jeremy Anwyl, chief executive at Edmunds.com, an analyst firm. "It might have started out from the perspective of improving the environment, but it got detoured as a way to stimulate the economy."

Popular high-mileage commuter cars including the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Toyota Camry and Ford Focus also were among the Top 10 most popular new vehicles bought under the four-week program, with 105,280 of those models sold for a total of about $2 billion.

Chris Moss of Smithtown, N.Y., traded in his 1992 white Ford 150 pickup — "it had 5 million miles on it and needed $50,000 in repairs, if you know what I mean" — for a new Chevrolet Malibu hybrid for his wife. When he drove his old truck to the dealership's back lot with the rest of the clunkers, "90 percent of what you saw were old 150s and Explorers," he said. Moss posted a video on YouTube of his old truck's final day, called "Rust In Peace."

The $3 billion program, known officially as the Car Allowance Rebate System, ran from July 27 to Aug. 25 and generally required that new vehicles get better mileage — at least 22 mpg for cars and either 15 mpg or 18 mpg for trucks depending on class — and that trade-ins get no more than 18 mpg. The trade-ins were required to be destroyed in exchange for either $3,500 or $4,500 rebates.

"The value that the customer got for a lot of these vehicles was just a gift, no question," said Scott Pundt, sales vice president for the Dorschel Group of Rochester, N.Y., the No. 4 dealership in the U.S. with 592 vehicles sold under the program. "We were appraising 220,000-mile vehicles that were really rough, and they were getting $3,500 or $4,500 for them." Four out of five old cars turned in there exceeded 100,000 miles.

Some deals raise eyebrows:

• In at least 145 cases, mostly involving trucks, the government reported consumers traded old vehicles that got better than or the same mileage as the new vehicle they purchased. The government said it was continuing to investigate. A driver in Negaunee, Mich., traded a 1987 Suburban that got 18 mpg for $3,500 toward a new Silverado pickup that got only 15 mpg. An Indianapolis driver traded a 1985 Mercedes 190 that got 27 mpg for $3,500 toward a new Volkswagen Rabbit that got only 24 mpg. "It's possible some quirky deal slipped through the cracks," Anwyl said.

• In at least 15 deals in nine states, owners of large pickups cashed in old trucks for between $3,500 and $4,500 toward new Hummer H3 SUVs that got only 16 mpg.

• A driver in Arlington, Va., traded a 1999 Ford Explorer with 15 mpg in July for $3,500 toward a new $28,000 Jeep Commander that weighs about 4,700 pounds and gets 16 mpg.

• In at least 32 deals, drivers traded older vehicles for new large trucks — including versions of Toyota Tundras, GMC Sierras, Chevrolet Silverados, Dodge Rams and Ford F150 pickups — that got only 14 mpg.

• A driver in West, Texas, earned $4,500 in July in exchange for a 1989 Chevrolet Suburban SUV that got 14 mpg and bought a 2009 Suburban that weighed 5,900 pounds and got 16 mpg. Across Texas, seven of the 10 most common transactions involved drivers trading old pickups for new ones.

Car-crazy California led clunker sales with more than 76,000 trade-ins, followed by Texas with roughly 43,000 and New York with nearly 37,000. In California, the Honda Civic was the No. 1 new car and no pickups ranked higher than 18th. In New York, the Hyundai Elantra was No. 1.

The clunkers program was very good for Longo Toyota of El Monte, Calif., just east of Los Angeles, which sold more than twice as many vehicles under the program as any other dealership in the country, worth more than $30 million. That sole dealership was responsible for 1,432 sales worth nearly $6 million in clunkers rebates, mostly from its sales of 323 Toyota Camrys, 277 Corollas and 171 Priuses.

The next-best dealership was Price-Simms Inc. of Sunnyvale, Calif., with 672 sales of vehicles worth about $16.1 million, mostly from its sales of 213 Priuses and 134 Camrys.

Pundt said his dealership in Rochester advertised aggressively to consumers and operated three shifts of employees to submit claims. "We had people in here through the middle of the night, working 2 a.m. until 7 a.m.," he said. "The computer was so slow."

New pickups. That's what I thought it looked like.

[dan765]

If you ask me, this program was a joke.
First off, in Las Vegas, almost all the dealerships had problems getting their reimbursements from the gov't (surprising, I know)
The program was also designed to give GM, Ford and Chrystler a boost, but we all know that it was the Asian car companies that got the boost.
I also read the other day that the carbon footprint of destroying all those cars is much bigger than the footprint of leaving those cars on the road for 5 more years!
What a waste of taxpayer money!
And what about those used car dealerships who thrive off those "clunkers"? Now they have no inventory.
And what about those lower middle class families who are looking for a cheap car to buy their son/daughter for college?